Psychoanalyzing at its best.

[Kaoru]

Do you smell peanut butter? I smell peanut butter. It seems to have eaten all the text that was here.

Well said.  I'm also very egotistical, which is why I tend to shift a lot of conversations to my favorite subject, me.  But really, the 'analysis' of you was just a blind guess based entirely on probability of motive (in other words, theory), but not fact.  I'd have to have any number of conversations with you to even begin to understand what kind of person you really were, and even then, it would be an incomplete picture entirely because you never get an accurate picture of someone off the internet.  I have a ton of closets in my skeleton that I won't be sharing with any of you guys any time soon.  The beauty of the internet, you only reveal what you want people to see.

I feel it's better to love oneself than to hate oneself. (Most of that, of course, rises from the fact that if someone is at peace with themselves, I don't have to be up at 3:00 in the morning, talking them through a rough experience that a more confident person might've shrugged off. It's an experience I enjoy, don't get me wrong, but with the number of demands my life makes on me, these days, I figure it would be wisest to get what sleep I can, when I can.)

So your egotism doesn't bother me, that much. I mean, if we were talking, and you continued to do it when I or anyone else clearly wanted to discuss something else, yeah, it might get a little grating. But as is, I still stand by the 'Whatever you've done wrong, (As much as that may be), you've done a lot right, and deserve to be a little proud.' Feel free to psychoanalyze me, though. I'd like to see what you come up with, if we ever actually get to talking. Even if, yeah, you'll only be seeing what I want you to see.

Kill you?  No.  I'll assassinate you, obviously. 

I was actually thinking that you may have said that.  And I can understand sexuality being an issue there.  Hopefully that will change, at some point, but you're probably right.  And it makes sense that, since gender is insignificant, you could choose the one that would make your life easier.  Also, the government needs less homophobes.  And in general, I think that a politician is a respectable choice... IF you aren't a jerk.  I'd say that you're probably not, though   Don't do retarded stuff, don't lie about it after you do retarded stuff, and politely decline flights on private jets, and I'm behind you 100% ^_^

Heh. Good luck with that! If you believe everything people say to you, then I already have certain underworld families who shall go unnamed watching me, to see if I'll slip up and leave myself open to a 'hit', and a semi-professional assassin waiting for me to actually reach a position of true power, just in case I become corrupt enough to need a bullet 'twixt the eyes. But that's just if you believe what folks threaten you with. Whether sexuality is an issue or not for the politicians of the future, however...I honestly don't think I'd take a male partner.

I like guys, don't get me wrong. But what I want out of my personal life really precludes (barring some serious medical advancements) a husband. I want a wife, even if she's not beautiful, who I can both love and respect, and who will support me and allow me to support her. And I want a whole god-damn flock of children who look like the both of us. And I want a house in the hills, and a job on the coast, and a pool in the back...Nawww, sorry, I'll stop quoting The New World now, haha. Still, I intend to be the best politician I can. It's not a job I want for the power or the attention (Though I'm honest enough to admit, those are motivators, for me), I want it because the real people who can do some good in this country are the politicians, or the movie-stars. (Since my brief stint on American Idol didn't quite go anywhere, I suppose that just leaves me with option numero uno!)

ROFL

I don't know if you meant to phrase it that way, but you've made that saying incredibly hilarious, and I will probably say it that way from now on.

Oh, and, uh... serious dramatic stuff.  Yes.  Very important. 


I, too, enjoy figuring out who a person is.  And while I typically don't like to boast, I will say that I tend to be fairly accurate when making guesses, even with very little to go by.  I typically do that, however, not usually for sport, but for figuring out how to talk to a person.  Everyone talks differently depending on their company, but I like to be very precise with it.  The ways in which one uses words to say something can dramatically effect the meaning of something.  It can also effect how a person perceives something, while leaving the meaning the same. 

Drat. It sounds like Desler doesn't want to open up his empty body-cavities for us. We'll just have to look elsewhere, Mister...
Heh, but on a more serious note. I do that, too. I, too, think of it as a form of subtle manipulation. And I don't really like it, but it's not something I do consciously. I am quick to judge, if also quick to forgive, and it's something I've been trying to work on for a long time. The problem is, I don't really have much of a reason to stop myself. I'm not going to say I'm 'never wrong' - that'd be an obvious falsehood. But I'm wrong such a small percentage of the time that I'm easily able to catch myself, when I am.

I don't know if others would consider this sort of activity to be 'wrong', but, really, it's one of the tricks employed by KGB (Well, former KGB, now, I suppose...) agents and various other secret services the world over - you take the measure of someone, and you act in such a way as to ingratiate them to you. People will come to like you, they will relax around you, they will treat you better, trust you more, and reveal more.

And if you do it well enough, without actually agreeing to anything, you can give the other person the impression that you agree with them on all of the pertinent and important issues they believe in. That's some powerful mojo, there, but it works. And it's dangerous, in the wrong hands, because you hold power over someone when they think of you like that. (We'll 'ave to make sure Desler never gets this, then!  )

And we were still on very good terms after that.  We still are, but have since gone our separate ways.  And I've long since moved on, but still I subconsciously <3 him, anyway    It makes me giggly to remind myself of it. 

It's funny. I've sort've had this habit of accidentally... I don't know what you'd call it, actually. Propagandists would call it 'Turning straight men gay', I'd like to call it 'Showing people what they always felt, inside', but I'm sure the truth is somewhere in-between. I don't mean homophobes who are closeted homosexuals themselves, either - those folks who act more because they're ashamed of what they are, secretly, than anything else. I mean just regular, assuredly heterosexual individuals who stop being so assuredly heterosexual after they've spent some time around me.  Ahem. <.<

It makes me giggle to think of it. Your situation, though, doesn't make me giggly. Merely because I'm in the midst of a little problem like that, myself... (Long, long story, very complicated story, but the basics are, there's this guy who's got both law and computer science under his belt, and with that sort've experience, he's also going to take a political shot, eventually. We may even end up running against one another, depending. He's also a close friend of mine, a wonderful fellow, and I love him.
Only I don't. See? I told you it was complicated.)
EDIT: Oh, yeah. Forgot to mention the 'problem'. He and I have talked about it (We're adults, I mean, we can handle that sort of conversation!) and neither of us can actually imagine what a romantic relationship would be like, with the other. To say nothing of the image we both have to project. But that's enough of that.

EDIT 2: Longpost is looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong, as they say.

[Marco]

Oooh, do I get another turn to take another guess, more insight into your soul Kaoru?  You did say I should feel free to analyze you more, so here goes.  I think maybe insecurity may be one of your qualities, whether its insecurity about this conversation or just permanent insecurity, I really could not say.  But here is why I think that. 

Proof:
1.  First paragraph, parenthesis explaining something you said is much longer than the thing you actually said.  Suggests that you want to be clear so people don't misunderstand your intentions.  You want people to have a certain opinion of you, as you value your self image.
2.  In that same paragraph, you use the expression 'dont get me wrong', something people say when they are afraid of looking incorrect on an issue in front of others.
3.  You continue to use parenthesis frequently throughout your proceeding conversation.  This is a tell that you aren't quite comfortable discussing what you are discussing and feel the need to clarify your thoughts on everything.
4.  You use humor in a lot of places, which in a conversation about something so serious tells me that you are very nervous about the subject matter or discussing the subject matter.
5.  In your EDIT 2,  you make fun of the fact that your post is long, loooooong.  I'm thinking that you might be alittle self conscious about posting such a lengthy reply regarding your personal feelings.


Yay, fun.  I'm sure I can find more things if I look and read over it a couple times, but your post really is long.  I wasn't really looking at its content or what you actually said, just trying to analyze it, so sorry for not addressing your feelings on all the various issues.  We used to play this analyze 'game' in a chat room I used to log into a lot when I was younger, the Starside Bar and Grill.  But I was always the one getting analyzed and this guy whose chat-name was Wiz Soong was usually dispensing the verbal justice on my naive teenage self.

[AA7Dragoon]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread quite like this in the history of CC.  Kaoru, Mr., and Desler, you are fascinating people.

Kaoru,
I understand what you mean by human sexuality.  Personally, I hate labels.  Human sexuality is not black or white, gay or straight.  It's a spectrum of light and everyone is a dot somewhere on that spectrum:

|gay*-------*--------bisexual---*-------------straight|

I consider myself to exclusively like males only.  Not only on a physical level, but also emotionally and socially.  I get along great with females, I just have no interest to go out of my way to make new friends with them.  I bond with males.  If you had to categorize me, you could say gay.  But if I was stuck on a desert island with only a girl for the rest of my life, I'd hit it.  Because I'm human, and I'm not going to go into a life of solitude just because there are no other men.  And!  If I had to choose to have sex with a hot chick or a very ugly man, 9 times out of 10 I'd pick the chick.  Why?  Even though I don't find her desirable, I find the man repulsive.  However, does that mean I'd ever develop a relationship with a female?  No.  Because there are always other males I could be with, and I will go single and celibate until I find another to love.

P.S.: You should PM me some tips from your talent of "persuasion"

Mr.,
I never knew that about you.  Thank you for sharing something like that.  I totally understand your feelings.  I'd certainly be curious to know more details because I'm sure the nature of your bonding with him was sweet.  You've always been a level-headed guy who is mature and understands his feelings.  You take things seriously, not frivolously.  If you want to tell me more, PM me!

Desler,
You've always been so enigmatic.  I remember when the whole forum went crazy because you were going to reveal yourself and all you ended up showing was... your hair.   You haven't revealed much else.  You're Latino with a fondness for poker.  I think you wanted to be a police officer at one point.  And up until now, you've never disclosed your personal feelings about anyone in this forum.

---------------
And since we're on the topic of sharing...

Over the last couple months, I have been at my darkest hour.  The man I had called my own and lived with for 4 1/2 years, betrayed and broke my heart.  It was more than just losing love.  It was losing a way of life.  I had to move away.  I lost what I called home.  How I spent my day, where I went, who I hung out with him all changed.  Basically, it felt like my house burned down with my lover and best friend inside, just two days before I started the most rigorous part of graduate school.

And the relationship didn't end overnight.  It was a slow, ugly death.  Emotional and psychological abuse I should never have put up with.  He did it that way because it was his own cowardly way to undo years of passion and companionship.  But I didn't expect to be stabbed in the back.  I never conceived it would end that way.

I've cried and cried.  I drive to places and find myself remembering the last time I was there with him.  A song will come on or my dreams will replay the pain over and over again.  Last night I dreampt I was walking towards him and then these dark, cold hands grabbed me from behind and pulled me back.  I woke up, startled.

I don't know the future anymore.  I planned my life around him.  I'm considering going back to California where my family is after I graduate with my Masters and Certification.  There is nothing keeping me in Washington.  His family was my family.  His friends were my friends.  Now, it's all gone.

[IskatuMesk]

There's no fucking way I'm reading two pages of novels but I'll just throw in that I've attempted suicide several times and would probably go through with it more reliably if I wasn't a coward/had a firearm. I'm not gay, or bi, or anything simple like that. In fact, it has nothing to do with sexuality. I've chosen to completely alienate all forms of relationships and affairs, and I'll hold onto that until the day I die.

I've probably lectured quite a few people on why I would want to commit suicide but since everyone here is kind of out of the loop I'll just sum it up with severe brain damage.

Good luck figuring me out, too. I don't ever post, talk, or text anyone with my real thoughts except in very rare circumstances (like when anger gets the best of me). It's part of a mental defense.

Psychoanalyzation is a fun hobby.  You can learn a lot about yourself, others, and the human race in general.  It's almost a spiritual practice to me, and it has helped me understand humans more.

^--- That. I don't really consider it just a hobby, though. It's more of a demand for survival. Manipulation is the key to advancing forward in anything.

[Mucky]

In fact, it has nothing to do with sexuality. I've chosen to completely alienate all forms of relationships and affairs, and I'll hold onto that until the day I die.

On the contrary, I think that's what will get you killed.

[Whiplash!]

I thanked the community by making a starcraft campaign

[Kaoru]

Proof:
1.  First paragraph, parenthesis explaining something you said is much longer than the thing you actually said.  Suggests that you want to be clear so people don't misunderstand your intentions.  You want people to have a certain opinion of you, as you value your self image.

You had me at one, actually. You're right. I am very insecure - mostly because a lot of people tell me I'm a 'good' person, and I honestly see myself as a bad one who does good things. So I'm always thinking, always examining myself, and my actions, and I'm always very careful with how I put myself across. I've got an image to maintain. Even in a community where it doesn't exist yet. Very astute, sir. I'm also, admittedly, nervous about this topic, yeah - chiefly because I never have seen anything like this discussed so candidly in this community.

Or any community. It's new ground for me. Ground I'm not even sure I should be on - though it feels solid and pleasing at the moment. As for post length and parenthesis, though, I'm just self-conscious about talking a lot, because I tend to drown people out if I'm not careful. Or become so long people don't read. The parentheses are just stylistic, even if they do contribute to what you're talking about. I do like to crack jokes and make people laugh, though. A big part of that is just how many tears I've seen in my life, though. It's a bad reaction - I shouldn't try to jerk people out of their grief with humor, many times, feeling as terrible as they do ends up being a part of the healing process. I just hate to see people suffering.

P.S.On the subject of being clear, though...Man, this is some serious stuff. Anything online can easily be misconstrued, and this really isn't the time for someone to misunderstand you, yannow? No time is, ideally, but you've gotta be careful when you're treading amidst people's hearts and dreams.

...really is long.  I wasn't really looking at its content or what you actually said, just trying to analyze it, so sorry for not addressing your feelings on all the various issues.  We used to play this analyze 'game' in a chat room I used to log into a lot when I was younger, the Starside Bar and Grill.  But I was always the one getting analyzed and this guy whose chat-name was Wiz Soong was usually dispensing the verbal justice on my naive teenage self.

Don't worry about ignorin' the issues. You've said a lot on them already, after all. And I sort've did invite the analysis. :3 It's funny to have the shoe on the other foot, though - I don't get psychoanalyzed, much. Most of the time, it's me puzzling out the intricacies of someone else's mind and motives. It's just neat to see how I come off to someone who can read into actions and words.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread quite like this in the history of CC.  Kaoru, Mr., and Desler, you are fascinating people.

I'm not quite so interesting as you make me out to be. This really only worked because you've got so many amazing folks in this community.

I understand what you mean by human sexuality.  Personally, I hate labels.  Human sexuality is not black or white, gay or straight.  It's a spectrum of light and everyone is a dot somewhere on that spectrum:

You said a lot, here, and, honestly, after reading through it, all I can say is: Couldn't have said it better myself, and probably couldn't have even said it as well. Even though I find myself on the other side of the railroad tracks, as it were - I can't, honestly, imagine a romantic and lasting relationship with another guy. Maybe that's just social stigmata on my part, though. We'll see.
P.S.: You have much to learn, young Padawan, but I shall take you under my wings and teach you the secrets of the cosmos...Okay, no, not really.  It can be as much a curse as it is a gift, trust me.

And since we're on the topic of sharing...

With you going through something as miserably painful as that, anything I said here along the lines of 'I feel your pain' or 'I sympathize' would not only be trite, it would be untrue. I've never gone through anything nearly as horrible, as misery-inducing, and I cannot fathom the depths of trauma and emotional imbalance it could inflict on you. I think it's a testament to the strength of your spirit that you can even speak of it so openly, much less speak to all of us at all. But you are young. Trust me, I know - I'm young, too. Your life is still waiting for you, wherever it may lead you.

And while things look dark now - for good reason - you will make new friends. You will find new happiness. Do not discard the scars he left upon you, grow and learn from them, but remember: The moment he started trying to disassociate you from him by hurting you like that, he stopped being worthy of your tears. Which, I'm sure, you realize. Cry all you need to, I'll be here, the newcomer, and I'm sure everyone else who you've known for far longer will be here, too. And your family is still waiting for you, I'm sure. Yes, cry all you need to - grieve and pine and pain for as long as you want. But don't let it drown you.

And when you look back on this event, years and years hence, if the pain's still there...it's just proof of the strength of your heart, to remember and grieve for the good times lost, so long after the fact. As cliché as it may sound, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. And I'd be glad to talk more about this, if you'd like. Feel free to send a private message my way.

EDIT: Doack, by the way, I don't blame you for not reading all that's been said. It's a lot to take in, all at once. Personally, though, I'm just glad you're still here, for whatever reasons you've decided to stay. Your tutelage, in text form, scattered across this forum and others, has helped me immeasurably with my endeavors.

I thanked the community by making a starcraft campaign

As for this...:3 The Starcraft campaign I'm making is terrible. The dialogue is hackneyed and stilted, the characters are unbelievable and improper portrayed, and the missions try to cram too much information down your throat all at once. I also haven't mastered the use of 'Transmission' as opposed to 'Send text and show this face talking'. If I released my campaign, it'd be like releasing cancer.
No, I take that back. It's worse than cancer. 

[IskatuMesk]

In fact, it has nothing to do with sexuality. I've chosen to completely alienate all forms of relationships and affairs, and I'll hold onto that until the day I die.

On the contrary, I think that's what will get you killed.

.... Not really?

[Marco]

Kaoru:  And I bet you had to stop yourself from using parenthesis on multiple occassions for your reply just then.  The fact that you are now intentionally not using them shows me that you really are a people pleaser.  You're here for everyone else, to be the ideal person in another persons eyes.

Doack:  As I told Kaoru, do not take this personally, I am just guessing - its fun.  But lets see now, can I even analyze you?  Kaoru is such a people person, he loves to be analyzed, he wants to know if he can be perfected to be a better more lovable member of our society.  By your very nature, if I do sucessfully analyze you, I take away from what you might think is special about you, your ability to completely defy the standards of modern human society - and if I did that, I might offend you.  So what do we know about you just based from your one post there?  A bipolar who supposedly shuns all human relationships but is not above talking about it, so not really a true loner in a sense.  Just the fact that you mentioned it tells me that you want to be acknowledged for being different.  You want people to respect and acknowledge your solidarity.  "I who will never take a mate, who will never have a lover at my side, look onto me, for I am unique."  I think you want that recognition though because for you, its almost a requirement, not just a choice.  From your perspective, you have had a very difficult and emotional time in the past, and so now, naturally, as you have adapted to protect yourself (and others?) from harm, its just a natural defense mechanism.  It is something that HAS to be there to keep you from getting hurt, or maybe even possibly, to avoid hurting others.

You're right though, I can't really get much out of you beyond that.  I checked your past posts, not going to go through all of them, but most of them are just business talking about your projects.  You certainly are active on this forum.  Though one like yourself has to find something to do with ones time when its not spent in the company of others, so I certainly do believe you when you say you are anti-relationship.

AA7:  Thanks for the compliment.  I don't have any advice for your situation, relationships are definitely not my strong suit.  Sounds like moving back might be your best choice though.  It's going to be tough, companionship really is like a drug as I have discovered lately.  Giving it up voluntarily hurts.  Giving it up involuntarily sucks ass.  Try to find something completely new to occupy your time, as in, something you haven't tried before, something that might be fun.  Do what you can not to try to replace what you lost, because that will only make the pain last longer.

[Kaoru]

Kaoru:  And I bet you had to stop yourself from using parenthesis on multiple occassions for your reply just then.  The fact that you are now intentionally not using them shows me that you really are a people pleaser.  You're here for everyone else, to be the ideal person in another persons eyes.

One occasion, actually. My writing just comes to me, it flows, and there was only one occasion in the course of my response when I felt I should use parenthesis. I decided it'd be better to do it another way - in part due to your words, yeah, but more just because I didn't like the way it looked. I won't deny that I'm a people-pleaser, though. Or that I tend to operate with another's best interest in mine - not above my own, but side-by-side or just behind my own, most of the time. (Though that's partly because I've taken to heart the old adage, 'You can only help others after you've helped yourself'.)

You're pretty good at this. On the other hand, I've already admitted - in my past posts - that I unintentionally and instinctually adapt to try and match what I believe those I interact with, wish of me. So long as it doesn't violate my own ethics and morals to do so, where's the harm? You could call me a social chameleon, I guess. I just tend to fit into situations, so long as I relax and let myself.
(I wonder, can you read the slight defensiveness in my tone? It's not often I end up adopting it, so I guess you hit a nerve. Bravo!)

[Marco]

I wouldn't say I am good at it.  I would only say I am good at it if I could be 90% sure my diagnosis was correct.  Right now I'm only about 70-80% sure.  Sometimes my friends surprise me when I think I have them figured out.  Plus, people can change if they resolve to, though it takes more effort in some instances than others.

[Kaoru]

I wouldn't say I am good at it.  I would only say I am good at it if I could be 90% sure my diagnosis was correct.  Right now I'm only about 70-80% sure.  Sometimes my friends surprise me when I think I have them figured out.  Plus, people can change if they resolve to, though it takes more effort in some instances than others.

It's funny. Not only have I said those exact words myself, I've actually said them recently, during conversations with friends - the bits in the last two sentences, especially. Lots of folks I talk to say I'm foolish for believing others can change, even if they want to, but I've seen it happen, in good ways and bad, alike, so I believe it.

[IskatuMesk]

Desler> It's going to be pretty impossible for you to offend me, so don't worry about it. Analyze away. No matter what you say, it helps me understand more of how you think, too.

I take away from what you might think is special about you, your ability to completely defy the standards of modern human society -

I defy the standards of modern society in a lot of ways that you can't take away.

A bipolar who supposedly shuns all human relationships but is not above talking about it, so not really a true loner in a sense.  Just the fact that you mentioned it tells me that you want to be acknowledged for being different.

The lonerism kind of burned out when I stopped really caring about just venting. I have a problem with being unable to control instinctional reactions, especially those regarding aggression, due to a losing mental war. So I stopped trying to fight it altogether. That makes me rather blunt.

I think you want that recognition though because for you, its almost a requirement, not just a choice.

It is a requirement. But if I had a choice, the choice would be the same. Now, can you figure out the exact reasons why? I'm rather curious, actually.

From your perspective, you have had a very difficult and emotional time in the past, and so now, naturally, as you have adapted to protect yourself (and others?) from harm, its just a natural defense mechanism.  It is something that HAS to be there to keep you from getting hurt, or maybe even possibly, to avoid hurting others.

I don't seek to protect others. As far as emotional is concerned, I am a very angry person. I live in constant tension and hatred for a variety of reasons I probably won't go into in this thread. I wouldn't really call it difficult though. It may have been difficult before, but I've let go. I've stopped caring what happens. So I just bide my time by modding and doing whatever else.

so I certainly do believe you when you say you are anti-relationship.

I am anti-social altogether but something about the interwebs makes this rather easy. Like hiding behind a veil of shadows.

I do find this fun, too. It helps me analyze myself, as well.

[Marco]

You SAY if you had a choice it'd be exactly the same, but I think that choice is tempered and forged by a lifetime of experiences that were probably not positive.  Vague I know, but its the best I can do, I just don't know you.  Relationships can be rewarding, but you may have not experienced this aspect enough to fully appreciate it like all the rest of society does.

On a personal note, I will admit to something here that has given me a fleeting glimpse into people with mental conditions  that were not JUST psychological, but rather, actual chemical imbalances in the brain (such as bipolar).  I have taken MDMA a few times, and what it does is force a chemical state of euphoria caused by a recovery period of dysphoria, depression, and anxiety.  On one such ocassion, the anxiety completely overtook my emotional state, putting me in a constant state of panic and fear for an entire day.  I still had rational thought, but I also had an emotional state that could not be controlled.  If this state had instead been anger, I would have been yelling and cursing, all the while thinking with my rational mind 'STOP, STOP'.  You cannot begin to appreciate how controlling EMOTION can be until you experience it to such a degree that has a raw, unyielding prescence.  Concepts like free will suddenly mean a lot less.  I know this doesn't even measure .01% of what you probably had to go through your entire life, but maybe if we all had humbling experiences like that, we would be a lot more empathetic towards others instead of writing them off all the time.

There, that wasn't so hard.  Now you can understand me a bit more too.  I have heard it said that loners have the most gifted creative minds.  I'm sure you too understand that its not JUST because we have so much free time.  We need to be accepted in some way as well.

[Marco]

Thanks for seperating the topics Lavarinth, seemed inappropriate to continue this conversation in the same topic.  Ironically, it all started with my prediction on the fate of Rua though, which unfortunately, was correct. 

But to Doack:  I know some of your latest reply is still in the other topic I think, so I'll address what I remember.  I don't know what more to say though really except that I don't think a chemical imbalance is a theory regarding your condition.  There are neurotransmitters that, when unbalanced, can make us feel an onslaught of any one emotion (among other things).  I don't think its an unfair assumption to think that your body is unable to correctly regulate these transmitters which is why you can go from one extreme of emotions to another.  It's not psychology at all, its science.