Marco wrote:
You Sir Mesk, are an obvious example of the concept of balance and truth that I speak of. You fight battles suited to your battlefield, just as I fight mine, just as everyone must fight theirs.
That's probably something of a higher truth than the previous statement that "everyone seeks the truth". We all fight the battles we know can be beaten, and walk away from the paths we can't really tread.
I for one am a person who prefers brutal honesty over happy lies - as you seem to be yourself. But don't be fooled, blue man, for conformity and illusion are but very popular tools amongst many others. There are many who would, and in fact do, prefer a fitting, smiling lie over being punched in the face by the truth. This seems specially true on love relationships: it can be very hard to admit that you may love the other person far more than he/she loves you - or vice-versa - and other similar situations where you subtlely sense that the relationship might be doomed in the long term, but prefer to live in the happy lie that it's all ok.
A more common situation where conformism comes handy is when faced with death.
I attended a funeral yesterday -a close friend's brother was murdered, apparently by one of his friends who had a psychotic breakdown and stabbed him multiple times. I kept hearing amongst his sad, shock-struck relatives that "it was his due time, as God wanted", "this was how it had to be" and other statements whose truthfullness we simply cannot verify. When a young cousin of mine died, 1 year ago, due to a rare genetic condition of low immunity, her parents kept blaming - and still blame - the physicians in charge, even though the doctors did whatever they could to aid. Our whole family was witness to their efforts. Hell, half the hospital's staff were taking care of her, but there was simply not much to be done since the condition was so rare. The parents, regardless of medicine's finest efforts, blame the doctors, although no negligence was observed.
Conformity is a powerful and convenient tool. Truth seekers are few, and that's what I'm arguing for: that most people don't really care for the truth. They care for what makes them happy. While I'm not addressing the merits of conformism, I do recognize why it must be important to most people who can't move on without it. That said, it is a very alien behavior to me, but while living in society I'm usually the alien anyway. I'd never choose a lie over truth - if I had a daughter and she was raped repeatedly by 10 men for days before being bludgeoned to death, I'd still want to learn the truth over "she died happily and instantly and now she's in Heaven" (the first part is a lie and the second can't be verified). That's the way it works for me, but I do know it doesn't apply to many others.
If you're a fellow truthseeker as well, I can only say that you've my utmost respect, as it is often a hard path to tread.
Which brings me to:
what's interesting to me is that all great works or aspiring great works suggest the presence of 'higher powers' - be they deities or what you describe as a Sacred and Perfect Goal.
i'm not interested in religion, but i do acknowledge that mankind has always felt and will probably always feel it is in service of something else because of our inability to completely understand (intransitive).
This sounds very characteristic to the eastern values you've mentioned: I love the ways some of their schools of thought present their recognition of transcedency, the supreme as a goal to be followed. I see it as the ultimate quest, the one that matters, and it plays a major role in all my upcoming projects. No doubt yours follow a similar objective.
As a matter of fact, all of mine feature characters being deceived by their own limited awareness of events, and struggle to transcend it and reach for the truth, no matter the cost.
Legion: A lot can be learned by religion, but it isn't about that really. Spirituality is the journey of Self-discovery. It is the realization that who we are is incomparable to our -real- reality. You seem pretty receptive - you're still talking to me which means you might see something here is interesting to you on some level. So open your mind to possibilities. I'm going to do something you can relate to. You're a creative sort. Imagine you are writing a story. Forget about religion, forget about spirituality, and even forget about seeking the truth, just concentrate on your story. What I'm about to tell you is merely a possibility, a mental exercise to open your mind. Theorize with me for a bit, open your mind up to this possibility in every way you can. The best way to write a story is to try to imagine it an actual reality. With that in mind, continue:
Imagine your parents. You know that is is an undeniable truth in this world that a child born to a human is destined to be THE SAME AS, in every measurable respect, a being of similar capacity as their parents. Familiarize yourself with this concept, detail in your mind what it fully entails.
Now, try to imagine a God. A being beyond comprehension. Keep in mind that our intellect is so ridiculously insufficient to comprehend this being in its full capacity. An ant might as well try to fully comprehend the concept of quantum physics. Now if someone told you, 'you were a child of God', what would that mean? That is the concept for your story. To most people with their limited view of the world, they think of a parent-child relationship. But what if its a concept so wondrous, that this 'reality' we currently perceive is but a drop in the bucket compared to the full truth? Indeed, just as any loving parent chooses to educate their children, what if this 'reality' we are currently experiencing is merely a means to educate us? What kind of education is befitting a 'child of God'? What is the sole responsibility of 'God'? As Mesk put it, surely it has to be ensure the survival of existence itself. Tell me, do you think the lessons you've learned here in your life even begin to prepare you for such a responsibility?
A human is much too fickle. One lifetime would surely not be enough. Neither would a dozen. Perhaps not even a million lifetimes. And thus, an education befitting such a being would most certainly take multiple lifetimes. Of course, by realizing the full implications that you are a 'Child of God', it begins to explain the need for the dualities of the world. Light and dark, up and down, hot and cold, good and evil. Each are part of a system of balances created for this natural world of ours. If the duty of god is to insure the survival of existence, then this God must be certain that it's child comprehends these lessons of balance. That's because our natural universe is an endless display of a careful balance. It's a system of balance which fortunately, cannot be altered by humans, for such a disruption would surely echo throughout our universe in a dire sequence. "Matter can neither be created nor destroyed." Of course, when we do -try- to disrupt the balance of anything, we always observe a reaction of some kind. If balance is an educational tool of God, you can begin to see how your hand may be slapped, and you may experience pain. It's life trying to tell you that that is not the proper way to balance something.
Of course, humans aren't that smart. Our limited intellect can't possibly tell us the right way to balance everything. But, if we can show our teacher that we want to realize our full potential, that we are capable of learning, how would we do that? Praying? What we are and what we say usually aren't the same things. Even if we plead, it just shows that we haven't learned this lesson yet, instead it shows we've merely grown impatient or tired of this reality and we wish to move on. But like any loving parent would do, for the sake of their child, they wouldn't let them stop until they learned their lesson. Think about it as a novelist for a second. What do you think it would it take to display to God that without a doubt we had learned this important lesson, given our limited capabilities?
Really think about it. It may be obvious, but don't read on until you've given it some thought.
The key to unlocking this puzzle would surely be by doing. By our actions and by our mindset. Only when we display a fundamental respect for our own balance in every natural aspect we are intellectually aware of, would we be allowed to grow out of childhood and realize our full potential. The lesson itself may or may not be applicable to the reality of being 'God', but what it does is it shows our love for ourselves, for existence, for God, for everything. It displays a firm awareness of our responsibility for our own survival.
Alright, stop writing your novel for now. It was all your imagination anyway, right? Surely such a reality isn't possible, right? I can already see the doubt, the confusion, the rationalizations, its all coming back. Humans are predictable. I made my point I hope, I opened your mind a bit to a singular possibility. But, if you wish to keep writing this ideal version of reality, and realize its potential to liberate you, I certainly won't stop you. I suppose it depends on your own experiences and worldly point of view whether you want to keep writing such an unlikely novel or not. It surely won't be a best seller when it's released. In fact, I think there are very few who'd want to read such a tale. It's much easier to cling to what we know is reality and partake it its treasures than it is to write that kind of story for only a few to read, right? Interesting though, how we always lose ourselves in fantasy. Interesting, how the need to create something better than ourselves is so powerful, that its practically instinct. Interesting too is the fact that no matter what we do to accomplish that goal, it never seems to be enough. Seems almost as if we're doing it all wrong. Why in a godless world would we have evolved such potent instincts and urges if we could never fully satisfy them? In a world ruled by natural law, why are the minds of humans always seeking to disrupt that balance? If you wish to continue the story, apply my process of unlimited creativity. Keep questioning this universe you created, keep coming up with new questions, keep assigning characters to the roles befitting of such a story. Chances are, you can come up with something that echoes our own reality in perfect detail.
One of my now favorite quotes from science fiction comes from Star Trek, TNG, in the final episode. It's a dialogue between Captain Picard, a member of an idealized version of humanity, and Q, and omnipotent being. It goes a bit something like this:
Picard: I sincerely hope that this is the last time that I find myself here. Q: You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? The trial never ends. We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind to new horizons. And for one brief moment, you did. Picard: When I realized the paradox. Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. *That* is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebula, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.
Meta: I have no doubt that many prefer to live a happy lie. While I don't know the details of many of my peers private lives, it at least -seems- to be the accepted philosophy of their lives. The world may be a perfect place to realize the truth, but the will to seek that truth seems barely palpable or even non-existent in many. The idea though that the world is 'going to hell' as many think is just silly though. It's merely the balance for the truth becoming common knowledge - common ignorance. In fact, now more than ever, it has never been easier to find the truth, if you will yourself to look at it and overcome the obstacles you face in its pursuit, it will eventually hit you over the head with its clear and concise message.
The Music of Squad 303 (Celestial Reverie Music by Joel Steudler)
With Power of Will, Go Forth
In the name of the Sacred and Perfect Goal
"I am Unity."
what's interesting to me is that all great works or aspiring great works suggest the presence of 'higher powers' - be they deities or what you describe as a Sacred and Perfect Goal.
i'm not interested in religion, but i do acknowledge that mankind has always felt and will probably always feel it is in service of something else because of our inability to completely understand (intransitive).
A topic TOA addresses is the logistics of deities, Gods, and what they really are (or could be), and how their role in the universe ultimately plays out.
In the end, there are no true Gods. There are incredibly powerful beings, but not "Gods". TOA also comes upon a lot of curious and difficult moralities in general when it comes to this kind of subject. It is, in part, why I have strayed away from the fanatic devotion of my peers.
i've read your post, but i'll read it again later. sometimes i need to re-read a piece in order to distill its true meaning. forgive me.
what i meant when i dropped the term 'religion' wasn't that i'm not open to any of it. i meant to say that i wasn't looking for a discussion about religion, because whenever these discussions happen, i get a feeling people start going round in circles.
there's no doubt in my mind that religion and all its stories are this world's greatest influence. it's many other things too.
i'll get back to you on your post's content. i am indeed interested and that doesn't happen to me a lot.
mesk:
i don't know what there is or what there isn't. i just know that i've never seen or experienced any powerful being in my life. which doesn't say anything per se, but it's all i know.
i guess i've never believed in mysteries or paradoxes or deeper meanings. i guess i've always taken things to mean what they seemed to mean at first glance.
Last edited by Legion on Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's interesting stuff. To me, it is like investigating the worlds biggest mystery or piecing together a puzzle. Regardless of what you find however, just the concepts I have found for living a better life are sound in philosophy. The entire 'desire' thing I was talking about earlier. It's not a concept that means abstaining from life, or living in seclusion, or devoting yourself to worship a being whose existence is questionable. It's merely a concept that removes the frustration from various aspects of life. There are many other concepts that I know of which also make practical sense, and would improve your life regardless of your beliefs. The key is to keep an open mind. Discriminate, question, challenge, but always do so with an open mind.
Regardless, its an easy thing for me to do personally. I find researching the truth helps spark inspiration for my epic which I would otherwise never have considered. I've integrated my current objectives with my studies and have found that both complement each other well. Sometimes when I write scripts, I formulate new ideas, and then those ideas spurn a connection with something I studied or experienced. Here's what it boils down to in the end for me. My view is the ultimate outcome of my studies no longer matters. I now live a life immersed in study, imagination, creativity, and exploration. To me, there is no better or more magical journey for a human to undertake.
It's a lot like the parable of a man who searches all his life for something rumored to be the greatest treasure in life. He encounters many challenges along the way, meets many people of different cultures, learning things he never expected to learn, and experiencing things few men get to experience. After a life time of searching, when he finally finds the treasure he sought his entire life, he finds only a note inside the treasure box. It says, "Hope you had fun getting here." Nothing else was in the treasure box. And yet the man leaves smiling.
The Music of Squad 303 (Celestial Reverie Music by Joel Steudler)
Answers vs Understanding. I also find his view on 'design is not creativity' fascinating, seeing the views of my own 'creativity' pursuits as opposed to someone who views himself as someone who works outside the bounds of creativity. Quite a few interesting articles for the aspiring philosopher coming from the viewpoint of a design specialist. Many technical articles which probably wouldn't interest people not interested in design, but layered with other interesting articles.
The Music of Squad 303 (Celestial Reverie Music by Joel Steudler)
