The whole financial bailout thing is getting ridiculous.

[Marco]

There is now 2 trillion dollars being handed out to banks that isn't even being accounted for, in addition to the previous promise of the 700 billion bailout.  The government is also going to be bailing out auto companies.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27662540/  (Auto Company Bailouts)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... efer=world  (Feds Refuse to Identify WHO its Giving the money to)

Where does it end?  Why are some businesses being given preferential treatment just because of their importance in society?  We are literally at this point creating money out of thin air, calling it debt, and handing it out.  At what point does the rest of the world say, 'Americans don't assign any value or responsibility to their money.  So why should we accept American currency?'  I'm amazed it hasn't happened already.  Car companies are a business, and GM and Ford are both businesses that failed because they failed to anticipate world trends and continued to produce ugly gas guzzling cars that fewer people want.

Bailing out banks, fine, whatever.  It was their fault, but if they collapse, so does American society.  We -have- to do something, learn a lesson, and put in stricter regulations so it doesn't happen again.  But car companies?  Whatever - so we'll all buy Toyotas.  A lot of good people will lose their jobs and the economy will suffer.  But those are the consequences of a failed business.  Consequences that are being staved off by throwing more money into the pit.  This ridiculous system has money going out in every direction with no public disclosure.  Someone, somewhere is taking advantage of this, I guarantee, and not just getting financial assistance, but being made wealthy by the tax payers of the US.  Theoretically of course, since the national debt can be stretched infinitely as it has been for decades - as long as we 'promise' to pay it back.

[mAc Chaos]

I was against the bailout from the start.  They even said that they didn't know if it would help, they just thought they might as well throw some money at it.  The economy goes through booms and busts.  We have to let it bottom out if we want to get back on our feet.  We're just dragging it out.

[wibod]

lol at American auto companies, I was hoping they'd explode as punishment for producing shitty cars.

[IskatuMesk]

Currency should have been abolished a very long time ago.

[Negi]

mAc, if we didn't bail out hte banking system, it would have started the next great depression.  That is a fact.

Also, everything you post is misleading.  The money isn't being GIVEN AWAY.  The government is taking an equity stake through preferred shares.  Do you understand what that means?  Are you that uninformed?

Here, I will spell it out for you.
The government supplies capital for banks by buying preferred shares of stock newly issued by the companies.  This allows banks which may be insolvent to raise enough capital to meet their obligations.  When the banks can buy these shares back, the capital providers receive a large premium on the preferred shares.  That is why the government stands to lose no money.  The conservative Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson, however, first drafted a plan that would not give the government an equity stake.  This would have been disastrous, as the government would simplpy be buying junk bonds and toxic assets at a higher-than-market price.  Providing capital through equity stakes is the single best way to rescue the financial system, as the taxpayer is exposed to very little risk. 

Anyway, the whole point of the bailout is to lower the real interest rate, that is, the interbank lending rate.  Ths is the rate that really determines interest rates for businesses.  The problem is that this rate, indexed as LIBOR,  should usually stay very close to another important rate, the 3-moth T-bill rate.  This rate is controlled mostly by the federal reserve.  Now, the problem is, that when banks are afraid to lend to each other (high LIBOR) while fleeing to safe assets (US T-bills), these interest rates diverge sharply.  This measure is called the TED Spread.  When the TED spread is high, it means that the central bank (read: federal reserve) cannot affect real interest rates significantly, because the high interbank rate is no longer shadowing the Fed rates.  So basically, without this bailout, businesses and consumers would be forced to pay very high interest rates on capital, whether it be credit lines or consumer loans.  When this happens, businesses are forced to cut personnel, unemployment soars, and then sales drop as the unemployed can no longer spend any money.  This is called a recession.  Usually, the central bank can lower interest rates in a recession, but not in this type of recessoin, called a liquidity trap.  So essentially, fiscal policy is THE ONLY WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS CRISIS!!!!!!

What we need is for the government to make up for drops in consumer spending.  Thankfully, there is plenty of stuff to spend this money on.  We have a collapsing infrastructure in this country.  Bridges, dams, etc, are all in dire need of repair.  State governments are being starved for money, canceling projects left and right. 

Try to refute what I've said.
I dare you.
You will lose.
Trust me.

[RazorclawX]

Try to refute what I've said.
I dare you.
You will lose.
Trust me.

Maybe we're better off having another Great Depression after all.

[Lavarinth]

So long as the internet still works and I can eat.. I'm good.

[Marco]

This is a bad combination of posters.

You have mAc Chaos, who is easily offended.  You have wibod, who is easily offensive.  You have Doack, who will admit to liking nothing and to hating everything.  You have Negi who is actually passionate about something, actually bothered to make a lengthy reply about a subject, and will be one of those people who would be refused to be swayed by any sort of argument.  And you have Razorclaw X, a man who will never agree verbally even if he agrees.

I hope AA7Dragoon says something gay or Lavarinth says something aloof before this fire is lit.  If it lights, may god have mercy on us all.

EDIT:  Oh good, Lavarinth said something while I was typing this up.  And something aloof I might add.  I know you all too well, all of you.  Good man.

[Mucky]

This is a bad combination of posters.

COMBINE THIS HUAAAAARGH

[RazorclawX]

Go Voltron Force!

[AA7Dragoon]

I hope AA7Dragoon says something gay or Lavarinth says something aloof before this fire is lit.  If it lights, may god have mercy on us all.

In other news: Gays Wed in Connecticut
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage;_ylt=AiVvr4LVGgLGj_bDRtFPGoVvzwcF
(Warning: Images of old lesbians kissing.  Even I was offended.)

[Whiplash!]

I hope AA7Dragoon says something gay or Lavarinth says something aloof before this fire is lit.  If it lights, may god have mercy on us all.

In other news: Gays Wed in Connecticut
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage;_ylt=AiVvr4LVGgLGj_bDRtFPGoVvzwcF
(Warning: Images of old lesbians kissing.  Even I was offended.)

OH NO THE COUNTRY IS GOING DOWN THE GUTTER GAYS GETTING MARRIED WHAT NOW!?!?!?




I was against the bailout as well.

[wibod]

Shit I didn't post anything offensive, I must right this terrible wrong!

[Xenon]

We're going to end up with horrible inflation because the government is cranking out money like toilet paper to pay for the bailout. I'm seriously considering getting a new computer now, before it kicks in.

[Marco]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 46_pf.html  (No Oversight on Distributed Funds)

In other words, when the feds make the decision to distribute funds, no one tells them 'yes or no' for approval or evaluate the financial viability of the decision (other than the feds themselves), it pretty much just gets approved.  'Cut em a check, and move on to the next one.'  Talk about horrible planning.  I would have thought that when it comes to money, they would be extremely careful about this due to the overwhelming likelyhood of abuse.  What is to stop the people using this money from dipping in a little for themselves or masking money they take as expenses?  Nothing.  What a shame, a terrible shame. 

What is the modern day equivilant of people with pitchforks outside the castle?  Whatever it is, I'm beginning to think its more and more likely that its going to take a mob of angry people marching on DC to change this, which is unfortunate.  Our elected leaders are failing us pretty badly.  A lot of thinking out there is that 'things will get better once Obama steps in'.  No matter what his plans are - for better or worse - the damage being done now is escalating, and may be irreparable once he finally takes office.

Obama is also the one pushing for us to give automakers bailout money.  So I'm not sure if I have a whole lot of faith in him to solve this problem.  The automaker bailout might provide a short term bandaid and may appease and please the American people, but it sends a terrible message about the worth of an American dollar.