Campaign Creations

Lavarinth wrote:

RCcola wrote: Wow both of you, it's an internet forum that's on a site about video games, now you're debating like your on some politician show, calm down, seriously.

This is general discussion, they're free to discuss what they please.

I'm not saying they can't discuss, but they're are taking it a little to seriously. What happens, happens. Arguing over politics doesn't change it, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but don't flame each other over an online forum about it.

tipereth wrote:

Negi wrote:How about reinstating the red tape that was there to keep us from FALLING OFF A FUCKING CLIFF?  How about regulating mortgages to their pre-Bush standards?  How about refunding the SEC?  How about that?  You're a moron.

And you're an overdramatic doomsayer. You have no problem with the government bailing out people, but when they save banks and businesses you blow your whistle. It IS possible to have your cake and eat it too, in this case.

I'm done with this argument, post your rebuttal and lets move on.

The only reason we need a bailout in the first place is due to the reluctance of people like you to institute realistic regulations.  Have you ever heard of moral hazard?  Do you understand that reckless deregulation can cause massive economic problems?

I have no problem with deregulation so long as it is well thought-out and not just some knee-jerk conservative reaction to prudent government.  Bush's deregulation scheme did nothing but damage the solvency of our economy.  Think about it this way, some regulation is good, but having too much or too little can destroy the economy.

chris wrote: could someone please lock this tl;dr flame thread?

lol, you got destroyed and now want the thread locked.

This thread is now considered a serious discussion. *Waves hand* Any useless banter about "flaming," or pointless comments about "fine print" aren't acceptable. The conversations occurring here are worth discussing. Let it be.

Negi wrote: Also, RCX, the problem isn't spending.  The problem is spending on useless things.  If we spend on stimulus plans that actually produce more economic activity than the cost of the stimulus, we will save ourselves from a new great depression. 

But hey, be cavalier about it.  Say that we need McCain to prevent the democratic congress from spending money.  Go ahead.  But when the depression comes, all I'll have to say is that I told you so.

If you think the US is going to have another Great Depression of the likes of the 1930's, you're in for a surprise. Other countries in the world are so invested in us that they stand to lose themselves if our economy collapses (The US is China's biggest importer, for instance, which is part of the reason the government borrowed a huge amount of money from them).

The great depression was a worldwide depression.   :P

It has nothing to do with foreign trade.  It has to do with our financial system coming apart at the seams.  This is a generalization of how the great depression happened:

Lack of Regulation -> Bubble built on margin -> Bubble eventually bursts ->
Banks can't collect their margins -> Banks can't service their accounts ->
Public Panics -> Bank Run Ensues -> Public demand for cash rises ->
Investment falters -> Deflation -> Economic output shrinks and unemployment soars

And what do we call a decrease in economic output above a certain threshold?
A depression.

Now, apply this to our current predicament.  We didn't have a stock market bubble built on margin, we had a housing bubble built on mortgages, which are effectively the same thing as margins.  If we hadn't relaxed regulations on subprime, alt-a, and other alternative mortgages, the bubble couldn't have formed.  At the moment, we are in between two steps.  Banks can't collect on their mortgages, and banks can't service their accounts.  In some cases, we've even seen classical bank runs (IndyMac, Bear Stearns).  Now, this means that we are at a crossroads.  Do we allow a depression to happen, or do we save the economy and try to prevent this from happening again?  Once we reach deflation, there is nothing we can do.  So, it depends really on your priorities.  Do we want to punish the entities that abused the system at very great expense to the public, or do we try to fix the damage and punish the wrongdoers afterwards?  I personally think it's an easy question, but maybe you'd rather cut your nose to spite your face.

If you'd like the intermediate chain of logic between any two elements in my depression timeline, I'll post it if you'd like.

Guys, deflation is good, you can get more for your money.

New thread topic; Russia bans emos. Discuss.

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Zilla- wrote: Guys, deflation is good, you can get more for your money.

And the award for the most retarded comment goes to...

Zilla!!!! 

How am I wrong. Inflation and more money circulating is bad. Deflation is good.

Negi wrote: It has nothing to do with foreign trade.  It has to do with our financial system coming apart at the seams. 

It will soon enough. It depends entirely on how fast it becomes cheap to import America.

Zilla- wrote: How am I wrong. Inflation and more money circulating is bad. Deflation is good.

Price-stickiness dictates that deflation will first negatively affect output and growth before it lowers prices significantly.  A small amount of inflation is actually a good thing because it lowers the real interest rate and allows the central bank a bit more "wiggle room" in terms of interest rate manipulation. 

RCX, you're missing the big picture entirely.  Foreign trade only makes up a small share of our economy.  If America stopped all foreign trade, it could still easily survive.  Domestic problems affect a far greater share of the economy, and those are the really scary ones.  So stop making silly claims without even reading up about foreign trade.  This is EXACTLY the situation where a college-level understanding of macro-economics would help this debate.

Foreign trade is one of the reasons the economy is so bad right now. When we started importing things made in China and Taiwan etc. that was produced over there in sweatshops in great quantities, businesses stopped buying American made goods because it was cheaper to import, putting many factories out. We can thank Bill Clinton for getting the NAFTA agreement passed.

RCcola wrote: Foreign trade is one of the reasons the economy is so bad right now. When we started importing things made in China and Taiwan etc. that was produced over there in sweatshops in great quantities, businesses stopped buying American made goods because it was cheaper to import, putting many factories out. We can thank Bill Clinton for getting the NAFTA agreement passed.

The fuck does NAFTA have to do with countries in ASIA.

RCcola wrote: Foreign trade is one of the reasons the economy is so bad right now. When we started importing things made in China and Taiwan etc. that was produced over there in sweatshops in great quantities, businesses stopped buying American made goods because it was cheaper to import, putting many factories out. We can thank Bill Clinton for getting the NAFTA agreement passed.

You know how the admins can give custom titles?  I'm making a request for this dumb fuck.  Give him the title "Fucktard."

wibod wrote: The fuck does NAFTA have to do with countries in ASIA.

THANK YOU!

Also, RcCola, make sure you actually explain WHY foreign trade is one of the reasons that our economy is so bad right now.  Because it isn't.  If you don't know what you're talking about, stop talking.  I suggest you either think long and hard about your next post or leave this thread.  If you choose any third option, I will banish you from this thread like I did tipereth.