Campaign Creations

Hmm, lots of interesting information.

for 1), I don't see the 100000/100000 energy under the marine's wireframe in your picture. Does it mean that it doesn't show up or it's just your screenshot that simply cut like that?

for 3), it seems interface-wise that there only enough space for 999/999 supply but it's still much better than the WC3's 300 cap.

for 6) Good to know since I hoped those were true so that a minor part of my map based on that will still hold.

for 8) while it's not what I expected (menus having menus), it's more interesting overall than the question. So it means for my map that I will be able to fit every buildable buttons possible into a single worker plus with the possibility of "infinite" expansion over the button menu space for that.

for B4) At least the movement cap from WC3 is now lifted for real and we can have ridiculously speedy units if we want.

Although by slide, do you mean that if the air unit have a movement of 1000 but a turning rate of 0.01 or something that it will "move" by sliding at a speed of 1000 but still turn very slowly (and potentially that when it reaches the destination that it stops sliding/moving but continue turning to the right direction in a stationary position)?

So, I guess ill have to think of more things for you to try eventually. Although ill probably only find a few more there and there. Those were ideas that I did write in my book in the last month or so. Thus would take more time to find more ideas.

EDIT : Okay, I did manage to screw up my last paragraph quite a bit which I fixed. I wanted to imply that it will take me more time to find more things for him to try over time rather than to limit the ideas I want him to try.

Can we stop being retarded? this isn't any different than the pile of campaigns hosted for SC1 including the contests.

Okay, I did intend to stop it there for my questions after all the fuss. However, after hearing HKS' argument and thinking about other aspects, ill continue with my modding questions in the end.

It's likely that Blizzard that won't mind that much. With the disclaimer in place, if Blizzard is unhappy about my conduct in this thread they can personally contact me (preferably by PM, tend to not check my e-mails much) to request that I stop or anything else about it rather than charging in. That was pretty much how it was done when they didn't like it for the "grey cases" (espacially with some campaigns in the past).

So okay, back to the thread itself ...

Btw, HKS you didn't answer the sub-questions 1 & B4 of my earlier post. :p

Anyway, I got even more modding ideas for you try :

C1) Permanent Cloaking use energy?

Does permanent cloak (DT-like) sucks energy? (in SC1, it happened but in WC3, it doesn't, thus mostly to see if by some twisted fate that it re-slipped in)

C2) Permanent Cloaking and normal Cloak mix?

Does using permanent cloak (DT-like) and normal cloak (ghost-like) works correctly?

By that, I imply :

1) When uncloaking that it doesn't kill the permanent cloak
2) When uncloaking, it doesn't continue to somehow to suck energy.

C3) Negative movement or negative turning crashes?

That or that it does the reverse effect (going backward).

C4) Invulnerability can still be affected with invulnerability-affecting properties?

For example, having an offensive spell can that affect "invulnerable" units (or potentially ONLY "invulnerable" units). For the invulnerable part, you can probably find the ability off some special unit or maybe off some special "doodad" building.

C5) Two same kind abilities that don't step on each other

An example would be have a lesser but quick Yamato gun AND a stronger but slower Yamato gun ability on the the very same unit. Both abilities should NOT step on each other. In other words, if you try lesser Yamato, it doesn't try to order both lesser and stronger. Vice-versa with greater Yamato.

C6) Mining negative resources

By that, I imply mining resources that would give -5 minerals or something like that.

Does that :

1) crash?
2) give nothing (0 gain)
3) deduce ressources ("gain" -5)

C7) Colored messages and tooltips

Show both colored messages and tooltips.

Btw, if possible since there is probably some kind of "color code", it might be nice to know it. :p

EDIT : You might as well try to edit interface-related text as well for the kicks.

C8) Custom animated portrait

Show a custom animated portrait instead of a normal one for a specific unit.

C9) Different wireframe

Show a different wireframe for a specific unit.

C10) Lift-up non-terran buildings

Attempt to use lift off for non-terran buildings. If it is required, make a "lifted-up" version of the building that have flying movement.

C11) So many upgrades levels!

Have an upgrade that can reach a LOT of upgrades levels (ex : the famous 255 max upg.)

Also test if having lots of upgrade levels raise the loading time either :
1) When loading the map
2) When having the first occasion to poke the upgrade (likely to be after constructing the building that can research it)

In WC3, that was a bit problem that could easily raise loading times to really long times just because of quite a few really high max upgrades (probably due to individual loading of all levels' tooltips).

So to make the slowdown/freeze really obvious if there is, I suggest that you give a good 10 upgrades with 100+ possible levels each on the same building.

As a remainder for SC2, since it does remember data from game to game, you will need to fully quit SC2 and reload to test again the extra loading length.

So, ill try to find even more ideas over time.

Okay, this will be my last batch of questions for this thread. While I don't expect Blizzard to really do much about it even if I push it further, it will be to finally respect Lavarinth's wishes about the whole aspect despite my personal preferences.

EDIT : It seems I misinterpreted Lavarinth about it and thus we are allowed to ask more questions for the propose of research for the collective.

Iggyhopper has some more modding videos here.

So from those videos, it shows that it is also possible via modding (and possibly via the editor) :

1) Able to make model size % bigger or smaller
2) Able to have model proportions in X,Y, Z. Examples shown as flat (having like X% of 100, Y% 100 but Z% of like 20-30%) or slim (X% Of 30%, Y% of 30%, Z% of 100%)
3) Square terrain
4) Multiple attack types on a same unit. They seem to be firing all of the attacks at the same time but I am not 100% sure.
5) Dynamic attack types. As in you can add/remove an attack type from a unit on-the-spot. Including up to having an ability menu to actually change them.
6) Bunkers have a 16 cap (not sure if he set it to 16 or if it can actually have more but we know that 16 is possible)

Also, according to that guy, it seems SC2 supports grid-less construction.

I think the square terrain was due to the game being unable to find the cliff models that would normally fill the blank areas.

Xenon wrote: I think the square terrain was due to the game being unable to find the cliff models that would normally fill the blank areas.

Quite possibly but if the engine even shows up square terrain in some form, it's probably possible to have "real" square terrain in some way or another. In this case, it could be to have a specific cliff model you remove on propose data-wise but "technically" use it in the future editor so you can form the square terrain in-game for specific sections of the map.

If there isn't a placement template used (which can also be made) it will default to gridless construction like the units I tried making my custom worker build.

EDIT: Also

C1) Cloaking Field has its own energy drain attached to its ability so its even possible to have cloak toggle without using energy at all.

C4) All the abilities and weapons have exclusion flags that designate what it can and can't target, heres the Marine's weapon for example If you deleted Invulnerable it would shoot at Invulnerable units, no need for hacks.

C5) Abilities can be linked and un-linked as you see fit obviously that would involve copy+pasting a seperate yamato.

C8-9) They are defined in the files according to the units ID (SCV will automatically use SCV files in the MPQ etc I believe) or specified

C10) Any kind of building is capable of lift off of course if it doesn't have the proper animations it won't look right.

So even more questions so that we learn further the possibilities of modding :

D1) Nuke without warnings

It is possible to have a custom nuke ability (including the "circle closing it" visuals)  that doesn't trigger the "Nuclear Launch Detected" text message and voice/sounds warnings? By that I imply that the original nuke ability still trigger the warnings.

D2) Moving psi field

If you give a psi field to a moving unit (as in fully moving with giving out a psi field and not counting the Prism's stationary mode), does the psi field "moves" graphically if the unit is currently moving and selected?

In addition :
If you move it manually in range of a protoss unpowered building, does it give power back?
If you move it manually out of range, does it drop power? (presuming there is no other psi field giving some)
If protoss buildings temporally or permanently stop constructing on lack of psi field (last pylon nearby got destroyed), also test moving in/out for that case.

Extra : Also increase the unit's psi field's range by double if you do show up pictures.

D3) Local Warp-in

Is it possible to modify the Warp Gate's Warp-In feature to only warp at the very location of the building (and not in the psi field)? Preferably with a simple click and without any targeting?

D4) Sister Psi Field

It is possible to have 2+ kinds of distinct "psi fields"?

By that I imply :
-The first one is the normal one (blue) while the second one is of red color.
-The second can have different effects (ex : only give power or only warp-in but not both or instead something else completely)
-A potential difference could be that some warp-in buildings can only warp-in in blue psi fields and others in red psi fields.

D5) More fiddling with Warp-In

A followup of D4, try also make different warp-in buildings that can warp in units the following circumstances :
-> Anywhere (doesn't require a psi field)
-> On Zerg Creep terrain.
-> A combo of 2+ cases (ex : In a blue psi field OR on creep terrain)
-> Any terrain specific-case you might potentially find.

Extra : Try to see if you can manage to modify the psi field so that an ally can warp-in in an allied (but not his/her) psi field.

D6) Unit Sharing ability?

Is there any unit sharing ability? Basically one that allow to use the same unit/building even if the owning player doesn't have shared units on in their alliances.

D7) Shared View ability?

Similar to D6 but for sharing vision for that specific unit. Also ensure we can see the unit even if it's invisible.

On a lesser extend, an ability similar to the SC1 parasite ability could count.

D8) Permanent Psi Field View

Is it possible to see the psi fields' blue range without selecting the building (and owning the building).

If so, is the psi field's blue circle can be viewed only by :
1) You
2) You + Allies
3) Everyone (including enemies)
4) Other

D9) Zealot Charge Poking

Try to give no cooldown to the Zealot's Charge and map-wide charging range for kicks.

Does it charge only when seeing an enemy unit or does it charge even it doesn't see the unit (and probably ridiculously far)?

Does Charge have a bad habit to overwrite any ability being channeled?

Does casting a spell while charging cancel charge?

Also try to add energy costs to Charge and see if it correctly cost energy and doesn't charge if it lacks energy.

D10) Creep spawning mix-up

Let's say a building (probably Zerg) have 2 creep spawning abilities, how do they stack?

Ex : Ability #1 : Normal range, spawns at 100% rate of default.
..... Ability #2 : Map-wide range, spawns at 50% rate of default.

What would be the scenario?
1) Ability #1 or #2 is ignored
2) Spawns creep map-wise at 150% speed.
3) Spawns creep map-wise at 100% speed.
4) Spawns only normal range at 150% speed.
5) Spawns only normal range at 50% speed.
6) Spawns normal range at 150% speed and then at map-wise at 50% speed?
7) "Double" swarming, each at 100% and 50% respectively. Would take 2x time for the 50% to "reach" the same range of 100%'s to then extend beyond the normal range.
8) Other

D12) Spawn terrain/B]

If possible, try to modify the Zerg Building's creeping ability to spawn different a type of terrain to replace the one that already exist.

D13) Sight Range Max
Set a unit's sight range to maximum/map-wide. Do this test on the largest map possible so we can see if the maximum sight can't cover the whole map on larger scales somehow.

As ground unit, it should only see everything below ramps if it is below ramps and as an air unit, it simply see everything.

D14) Can abilities actually cost resources to use instead of health or energy?

As in say that it costs 200 minerals (and actually removes from resources on use) to use Yamato instead of 150 BC's energy

D15) Can the bunker size be higher than 16 (and for transports)?

If so, tell if it's with or without extra modding work beyond setting a max size of 16.

Also test the same thing for transports.

EDIT :

D16) Chrono Boost fiddling

1) Have a +100%, does it only give 2x quicker train or it's pretty much instant train?
2) If in #1it's instant train, does having 101% or higher crash the game?
3) Have a negative Chrono Boost for the propose of slowing a building's production (ex : Enemy's)
4) Just try to use the normal Chrono Boost on normal units rather to see if there any difference.

D17) Basic Commands fiddling

Off a unit, try to remove a common command (ex : Patrol, Move, Stop, etc.) and re-arrange another common command to another menu slot (ex : Move command iinto the 3rd row of commands).

D15: I would say yes, as the Nydus Network can hold an infinite amount of units, but only displays the last 16 who entered. What is missing from the Nydus is the number tabs that normal selection groups have, which allow you flip through groups of 32 at a time.

D16: Chrono Boost increases rates by 50%, so 100% would be double that speed. (ie, normal build speed is 100%, with Chrono Boost it's 150%, so a 100% Chrono Boost would be a 200% build rate)

Hercanic wrote: D15: I would say yes, as the Nydus Network can hold an infinite amount of units, but only displays the last 16 who entered. What is missing from the Nydus is the number tabs that normal selection groups have, which allow you flip through groups of 32 at a time.

Really? You sure? I thought it only held 16, BUT the moment you begin to unload elsewhere it instantly adds in any units whose last command was to enter the nydus.

Nydus Networks can only hold 255 units and thats the whole network not per building, it only shows the first 16 units that entered.

Random notes:

Players can only control ~1500 units, new units stop having buttons and can't do anything.

Minimap starts breaking at roughly ~1000 blips (units)

Cargo units can carry alot of shit, can't test past ~1500.

SC2 either has no Bombardment type attacks or its not being used after the Planet Cracker and Battlecruiser variants were removed, dissapointing but those were probobly just generic area splash attacks.

0 build time will make the game crash from DEP, 1 is fine.


C2) They can be on the same unit without any issues.

C3) Disables movement/turning.

C6) Workers can mine from it but won't take anything.

C7) Tooltips etc use HTML color codes, lol [imgwh 226x144]http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5176/zergling.png[/imgwh]

C11) Probobly not happening due to the absurd amount of time it would take to even do a couple upgrades.

D2+D4) Psi fields pretty much work like auras but without the lag, its possible to have as many types of them as you want each powering seperate things

D8) Can't even find where its getting the pylon overlay.

D10) Both creep spawning behaviours shouldn't cause problems with eachother, the smallest one will get a growth bonus since theres 2 filling up the same area will the map-wide being on its own after.

Creep spread speed from I've seen is a global setting and probobly one of the few hard-coded things in the game currently because I can't even find its source to duplicate it into another type of creep.

D12) see D10

D14) Abilities can use resources instead, no idea how to go about draining them like energy though.

D15) They work the same way as any transport currently does, you can stuff alot of units in them but they won't show up past the initial 16.

D16) Chrono boost multiplies the current build/research speed, if it gets lowered below 1 sec build time the game will crash.

D17) Very simple thing to do, the buttons work more like SC1 did than WC3.

New smaller batch of questions :

E1) Day/Night system

Is there some kind of day/night system similar to WC3? At least, is it possible to easily manipulate the visual view so that it gives the impression that it goes from day to night then night to day?

E2) Game Speed change

Is it possible to modify the game's speed (and might as well replay speed) at different speeds than the current ones?

Ex : Normal speed being at 50% instead of 100%.
      Fast speed being at 300% instead of 150%.

E3)Map proportions

Probably impossible to answer now but anyway :

Can a map's proportions can be higher than the current max via modding map files? By how it can be increased before it causes any problems?

Also if a map proportions are modified that way, do they have to follow specific multiples of size to prevent crashes (ex : multiples of 16, 32 or 64, etc.)?

What kind of oddies can happen if it's done?

E4)Different types of invisibility and detections

Is there are different types of invisibility and detections?

Example :

Unit #1 has "Invisibility of type #1" (Burrow-like)
Unit #2 has detection against "invisibility of type #2" (Cloak detection)

Thus Unit #2 wouldn't be able to detect Unit #1.

In addition, is it possible to have brand new types of invisibility (Ex : of type "4th dimension") along with brand new detections to detect those?