IskatuMesk SC2 Beta Coverage

[IskatuMesk]

Just hit 1k subscribers. Fuck yeah.

Got some requested replays to commentate. BZ sent me an FFA and some random utub guys sent a few, both of their own and some high-level reps.

[mAc Chaos]

Every time I read this thread I just get depressed about Starcraft.

God, at this rate I'll probably just play the one player a little then toss it into my bookshelf and go back to playing Xbox.  My brother has the beta and calls it Warcraft 4.

[IskatuMesk]

I do not like Sc2.

I am sure I will get flamed to hell and back by what I am about to say. I implore you to have patience and continue reading on to understand my reasoning.

"Starcraft 2 is one of the greatest disappointments in my entire gaming life."

One may ask, "Well why do you say that?"

To understand my viewpoint, one must consider what it is I have done all my life.

For a decade I have modded Starcraft: Brood War. I have modded Warcraft 3. I have modded Diablo 2. I have modded Halo PC, Neverwinter Nights, Age of Wonders 2, and beyond. Many would consider me the greatest of Starcraft modders - a title granted only by the decay of Starcraft modding and being the last one standing. Chances are if you've modded Starcraft you've heard my name. But you aren't modders, are you? You have no idea who I am, or what I do, or what significance it plays in my viewpoints of the sequel.

Starcraft: The Great Destroyer, Final Boss of Armageddon Onslaught.

Believe me friend, I have been to hell and back already.

Starcraft drew me in my youth with one thing. Not Proleague, not Micro, but immersion. Through the concept of Immersion, the most powerful element any one game can have to open the gates to the mind, Starcraft had changed my life. This is a bold statement to make, but indeed it was Starcraft that carried me through the darkest ages and it is because of Starcraft that I have done what I have done. Starcraft opened the world to modding up before my eyes and it is because of this one game, this one factor, that I undertook everything from music composition to modeling.

Fury OST - DET

I attempted music composition early into my Starcraft modding but could not improve my skills because of my severe mental ailments. But I did attempt it.

Starcraft and I, we have a certain bond that most players will never have. I have been in the thick of the game, tearing it apart bit by bit to not only understand how it works but how to make my own game through it. Starcraft is a very limited game to mod but, as you can see, I achieved much. Much many thought impossible in such limits.

Armageddon Onslaught 2.4a - Update Preview 2/2

I have been there. I have done that.

When sc2 was announced many years ago I felt as though I at long last had purpose. For so many years I had wandered aimlessly. I was still fighting to write my novel - a ventured still left unfinished - and had attempted many previous games to mod. Warcraft 3 had two critical issues that killed all of my two dozen projects: broken computer AI and broken pathing.

[imgwh 640x480]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/389/wc ... 192441.jpg[/imgwh]

Yeah, been there, too.

I approach all games these days from the standpoint of a modder. No, not a mapper. A modder. For mappers wc3 was a dream come true. For modders it was a living hell virtually unusable.

Warcraft 3's editors was amongst the worst editors I had ever used at the time. The unit editor was disorganized and sloppy, riddled with arbitrary limits and oddities that weren't at first apparent. Most things I wanted to do could not be done without triggers or JASS - things you couldn't bring into a mod environment without tearing apart Blizzard.j and trying to compensate for performance issues that would occur from large-scale usage. In this respect maps were always superior, for maps were much smaller scale and more easy to control. But I was not such a man that I thought a lone map was worthy of so much time invested. Needlessly I pursued map projects and wasted more time and energy.

[imgwh 640x564]http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5117/supsupsup.jpg[/imgwh]

Extremely early terrain screenshot from the Loladins of Legend AoS.

With mod projects virtually impossible in wc3, I attempted campaigns instead. This was where issues with the computer AI completely crippled project after project. From the AI refusing to navigate simple terrain to the time-proven "Destroy a tower and run back home" glitches, my Active Map concepts were totally impossible in wc3.

[imgwh 640x524]http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3349/stuff5.jpg[/imgwh]

The irony is that with wc3 I learned a great deal about the importance of Terrain and how it effects gameplay and immersion.

So, when I first heard about Starcraft 2, I had high hopes. By now I did not allow myself to have hope - too many games, like Earth 2160 and Neverwinter Nights 2, had failed horribly to come remotely close to their precursors much less improve anything. But this was Blizzard, right? Yes, Warcraft 3 sucked for what I was trying to do, but that's because they were still recycling the same engine over and over again. At least with sc2 they said they were making a new engine. Surely they'd riddle the game with stupid arbitrary limits but at least the major problems that have been crippling me all these years would be solved.

I wrapped up my last Starcraft project, Armageddon Onslaught, and said good-bye to my life friend. I was still regularly watching professional gaming but my days of participating in modding were long over. I hadn't played vanilla SC competitively in nearly 8 years, but retained a fairly strong grasp of how the game played and what made it play that way. Anything that was not immediately obvious to me made its way into my head through Day[9] Daily and other such resources. I recommended these resources to all other modders. I helped many modders balance and design their mods, for a characteristic most modders had in Starcraft was a terrible, virtually non-existent, understanding of gameplay in general. This lead to retarded economy changes like those seen in Ad Adstras and many of the one-hit wonders.

[imgwh 640x480]http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8353 ... 141234.jpg[/imgwh]

I had made a Starcraft AI called ZAPOC that could hit Ultra tech by the 6 minute mark. This was without the C++ enhanced BWAPI. ZAPOC is the strongest non-API AI at this time. Its development was fraught with hardcoded problems, like all AI.

I would be lying if I said my mods were successful, because they weren't. Nothing I have ever done has tasted the waters of success. This is from a combination of severe mental issues and the habit of modding terribly dead games. But I've found that it's the old games that are the best to mod. This is because companies do not consider modders in their game design, Blizzard included. Warcraft 3's editor was tacked on, a stripped down version of their Dev tool. When Frozen Throne was still young, I questioned Blizzard on their forum as to their plans of correcting many issues in the editor, like the unusable AI tool. Brett Wood soon responded with a post akin to,

"We know about the issues with the editor and do not plan to fix them."

Surely enough, to this date the editor remains just as irritating to use and just as broken as it was before. But the editor still had its strong points; making great terrain was easy and relatively quick. The unit editor was a total mess but at least it was somewhat organized. A general section would contain most elements related to each other, but not always (Armor was a fair ways away from health which made changing these attributes a bit annoying).

[imgwh 640x537]http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7695/ahc1.jpg[/imgwh]

This took minutes to make at most.

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[imgwh 640x480]http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4417 ... shot00.jpg[/imgwh]

I was modding Halo long before Custom Edition was never mentioned. Editing maps was an extremely hilarious and amusing process. To make those platforms one had to edit a tree log and resize it in a third-party tool, then string a bunch together to create the multi-level platform I had created. I was also experimenting with my first encounters with custom skins.

Starcraft to me is unrivaled in the gaming scene. Not just as an RTS, but as a game. The only games that have nearly the kind of depth of Starcraft are all rogue-likes, including Dwarf Fortress.

I had never heard of Rogue-likes until I discovered Dwarf Fortress through an Australian friend.

[imgwh 640x275]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/733/ab56.jpg[/imgwh]

Dwarf Fortress is a game that uses ascii text. All it took was the reading of Boatmurdered to get me hooked to it. I use the Mayday tileset, which makes the graphics what you see here.

Dwarf Fortress is a mix of sim city, the Sims, and Dungeon Keeper. The depth of this game cannot be expressed. No two fortresses will ever play the same.

The goal of the game is to guide your band of dwarves through life. You embark on a randomly generated map to an area of your choosing. These areas can contain a vast number of geological features - freezing Blizzards, lava, skeletal groundhogs and zombie whales. You do everything from strike deep into the earth to assemble dwarven armies to drown pointy-eared faggots in a pit of fiery justice.

The new Dwarf Fortress version recently released completely overhauls the underground and adds over 150 Z-levels of depth to any given map. It adds physics to weapons and armor.

[imgwh 462x564]http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8208/dfn13.jpg[/imgwh]

Aw crap, demons!

After I had been acquainted with Dwarf Fortress (largely when I poked a glowing pit and subsequently penetrated by a mass of tentacle demons), I asked myself a question.

"Why don't more games feature this kind of gameplay? That is to ask, why are modern games so shallow?"

DF is a game developed largely by one guy. It's had a long time to mature. This guy doesn't know how to make graphics, so he uses ascii text. Third parties have made several tileset/graphic mods. It is true that graphics are amongst the most critical aspects to both this question and the reasoning why DF and other rogue-likes have not totally demolished commercial gaming. Simple to say, many people cannot stomach the graphics as they are too accustomed to their shinies. At first I was much the same way.

But then I had to ask myself, "Wait, aren't I already playing ancient games anyway?"

The most recent game I played regularly was Age of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic. A Turn-based strategy similar to Heroes of Might and Magic 4. Likewise, I also modded the game.

By modding AoW2 I learned even more about gameplay. Specifically the relationships and the importance of units being properly defined. AoW2 was a very limited game unit-wise, you could only do so much with customing units. The minimum damage range was always 1-*, so the tier 10 mega dragons of death I had added were always still capable of doing next to no damage upon impact. Also, custom abilities were totally impossible.

[imgwh 640x480]http://www.doack.campaigncreations.org/ ... 5-22AM.jpg[/imgwh]
[imgwh 640x480]http://www.doack.campaigncreations.org/ ... 0-32AM.jpg[/imgwh]

As a long-time fan of Heroes of Might and Magic 3, I pressed on with this project despite the grand limitations of the game. The project took over a year to die, a death caused by the editor corrupting the data of the game.

The lack of unit diversity hurt this mod, much the same way the lack of racial and unit diversity kills Dawn of War and Supreme Commander. None of the races in these RTS' have truly defining attributes, merely renamed and slightly modified units (until you hit Experimentals in Supcom anyway). These are amongst many factors that restricted these games from ever reaching the pinnacle of Starcraft.

Through every one of my many mods, and all of my years of gaming, I had garnered a strong understanding of what makes games work. And through this understanding I bring to you today what I feel is amongst Sc2's greatest weaknesses.

Gameplay

Starcraft 1 had several iconic units that represented a great deal in terms of mechanics and gameflow as well as "potential". These include the Reaver and Vulture, both units you are doubtlessly familiar with. No other RTS in existence has the kind of depth these two units alone introduce into the game.

The vulture represents a critical and fundamental break away from the concepts of Hard Counters, a system that destroys any RTS. At first glance, the Vulture is hard-countered by Dragoons because, other than shields, the Vulture's concussive damage does shit-all to dragoons. But it has an ability - spider mines - that makes all the difference in the world.

The vulture, frail and relatively harmless to many units in the game, is a critical component in most Terran play. Even in TvZ - largely dominated by bionic play - many players have successfully and vigorously used Vultures to great extent.

Vultures add many things to the game. Geometric importance - the power of terrain. Mines become harder to deal with on the ridges of Heartbreak Ridge, mines can be problematic in narrow valleys, mines can be used to forced armies to move in a certain direction to bluff hidden expansions, the tactical and strategic possibilities of the Vulture alone are grand and significant.

Without mines, Vultures offer something to high-level players - hit and run. There have been many topics about hit and run to date, I need not recite their content. I was partially capable of moving-shots with vultures, something I used to great extent against the lesser-skilled players of the modding community.

But mines neither vultures themselves required high level play to make use out of. Anyone can stick mines in front of a Gateway and get effectiveness out of them. It's the experienced players that understand the psychological effect of mines and how this can be applied to map control. Mines effect every map uniquely, as do tanks, reavers, carriers, and most other units.

The Reaver is another critical unit and represents another key element - High Risk High Reward. Much of the Reaver's unit mechanics can be attributed to the Scarab, which is also a unit, and has unit pathing; it can get stuck on shit. Some people have said this isn't possible in sc2 - well, it is. It's doable in wc3, very easily I might add.

But we don't need the Vulture nor the Reaver in sc2. It's a new game, right?

But when Sc2 replaced these units it did not account for what they represented. The Reaver, such a pivotal unit with synergy to the Shuttle, was replaced by the Colossus, a unit that demands no skill from the user to maximize its potential, and a unit that gets little out of the hands of an experienced user. The "skill ceiling" of the Colossus is shallow indeed. We have seen "Colossus" drops - in fact it's one of the first things I did as Protoss - but there's nothing exciting about them. There's nothing that requires any effort. The Reaver demanded the user to fire at the right target at the right time to maximize its damage. The colossus fires faster and is significantly more effective at the Reaver's job. It's also more durable and easier to get - something made so by the dominance of Robo play at this time.

To me, the Colossus is amongst the weakest links in all of Starcraft 2. It is this way because it fails to fill the void left behind by the Reaver. I am not saying to remove the Colossus and add back the Reaver - as much as that would please me greatly - but rather, the Colossus needs mechanics that make it as interesting and fun to use as the Reaver. The Colossus offers absolutely nothing to the game but takes away a great deal.

The Hellion is much the same way, virtually useless outside harassment. Without mines, the void of map control and geometric importance completely cripples Terran mech play. This problem is further compounded by the appearance of units with huge health pools and insane damage versus armored on top of Siege Tanks being overly expensive and left out on the buff tree outside of attack speed.

Even bionic play has been "dumbed down". Marauders have 125 health, can stim, can be healed, can slow, and do 10+10 damage to armored - a level of DPS in sc1 reserved only for upper-end units. This brings us to the Holy Trinity - Marauders, Roaches, and Immortals - units that have destroyed Starcraft 2's gameflow. Units I feel should be completely overhauled.

The reluctance of change.

Browder is a great man at PR but I've yet to see any indication of him being any good at game design. Although he boasts the willingness to add and remove units at a whim, we get answers like this -

Q: With the large discussion on Zerg changes, is there any planned? Or do you believe that they're not being used fully?
A: We are looking at changes to the Corruptor. We are looking at the balance on Ultralisk and Infestor. We are not planning to introduce new units at this time, though we shall see as Beta progresses. =)

While this is indeed a beta, as I well know, it seems to me that Blizzard from the start has been unwilling to make change where change is necessary. They have insisted to keep the Mothership in the game from the very beginning - doing absolutely everything in their power to keep this unit in multiplayer where it does not belong. This tells me that Blizzard is, in fact, unwilling to make change.

I could go on and on about how Starcraft 2's gameplay has disappointed me in so many ways. From the terrible and recycled map design to the Holy Trinity to geysers, I don't even know where to begin. It's not that I am not accustomed to change, it's that I feel much of the first game's splendor, openness, and dynamic has been lost. Due to the presence of exceedingly strong hard counters SC2 has become a game of rock-paper-scissors. Even worse is the bloated numbers. Browder's obsession with "Faster, More Intense!" has caused certain units to balloon to insane levels of health and damage, making the counter problem even worse and further degrading the value of terrain.

The removal of the ability to target units in your group with any kind of ability is one change that leaves me scratching my head in total confusion. The return of Infested Terrans in particular made me removed a few clumps of hair over the course of an hour, and the completely random changes to Templar tech have caused permanent hair loss entirely.

It is fairly obvious by now that Blizzard is constantly making internal patches we are told nothing about. As they have also failed to give any kind of reasoning behind their changes, I can only make wild guesses as to why Roaches and their cousins still remain the way they are.

I am of the minority when I say these things. I am one of only a handful of people who think this way. Yet, the game is still in beta, and two expansions that will be adding units await us. It took sc1 a long time to truly gain momentum. But I feel that if the game does not change dramatically that it we will see a remake of wc3 - custom maps will totally dominate the userbase. We'll get into that in a bit.

There are things in sc2 other than gameplay that drive me up the wall and across the ceiling.

Sound

Starcraft 2's voice acting overall is amongst the worst I have ever heard. That's saying a lot considering who I am and where I've been. I feel that I could assemble a team of voice actors from the modding community that could produce far better Protoss voices within a week. If we were being paid a tenth of what the Blizzard actors were being paid I could make them dance naked in the rain with mailmen to the beat of Slim Shady.

The fact is, is that Blizzard's sound design has been on a steady decline since Warcraft 3. 90% of WoW's acting is absolutely horrible with a few factors - the only ones they chose to hire that are actually actors - being good. It seems to me that many of Sc2's units are voiced by the exact same guy - particularly the Protoss. And we all know how awful the Zerg sound; that isn't acting, that's just inexperienced and awful sound engineers in general.

IskatuMesk Random Voice Demo 2
Voice of The Great Destroyer

I've been told that even my experiments are commercial-quality level by fellow modders. I cannot speak highly of my voice acting because I have never been put on the pedestal to produce commercial-level acting, nor do I desire to ever do voice work for a published title. I have always and will always work for myself.

I have done voice acting for nearly 15 years, ever since I was just a child. When I first picked up computing amongst the first things I did was start figuring out how to digitalize my voice. I specialize largely in the voice acting of villains, demons, dragons, that sort of thing. But I've also voice acted Protoss and Zerg.

I force myself to adhere to a standard and level of quality I cannot possibly hope to obtain. Nothing I do is ever considered final. I am constantly redoing the same voice over and over searching for the absolute best diction and prose, the absolute best settings. Xul`Amon and The Great Destroyer are voices I have worked on for years.

The problem is of course that Blizzard depends on actors who are not actually actors but rather random employees. It's true that a few of Blizzard's employees make decent actors but the large majority of Protoss voices in sc2 make me cringe. It's not just the voices, but the writing itself. Metzen is one of the weakest writers in the industry (LOL THE ARTIFACTS ARE THE KEY TO THE END OF ALL THINGS), and whoever is writing the unit dialogue is not much better.

But it's okay. It's beta, right?

Oh, wait.

Q. Will there be any more voice acting changes for the units and such before the final release?
A. No, the actors are final, though we may choose different "takes" they did in the studio or change some of the processing on their audio.

This absolutely bamboozled me. I could not possibly understand how they think the Protoss acting is any good, but the Zerg are just unbelievable. Now, the majority of Zerg is not actual acting, but you'd think they'd mention that if they wanted it to be known. If the Zerg remain the way they are at release this will be truly horrible. They are uncomparable to any level of amateur or professional editing much less Starcraft 1 which, in my opinion, represents the absolute pinnacle of sound engineering and acting along with titles Beast Wars, infinity-engine games, and Reboot.

The more Blizzard talks about Starcraft 2 the more I wonder where the company I once knew had gone. The motto "It's finished when it's finished" seems to have been discarded aside.

But that's okay. I'm a gods-damned modder, and a voice actor. I never intended to play the campaign or melee anyway. To me, Starcraft 2 is just a playground. Pleased I was, then, when the editor finally appeared. At long last, a chance to see what it was I was going to be working with for many years to come.

The Editor

Immediately I was beset with how ugly the editor was. I am almost certain this editor is an early alpha and not the real thing. I cannot possibly fathom the Blizzard campaign team using this editor to make their campaign. That would be unbelievable.

Where can I possibly begin?

The problem with its editor is not its powerful, for it is indeed powerful. The problem lays within the interface. I had already been completely confounded by the decision to make battle.net 2.0 as grossly horrid as it currently is.

[imgwh 640x400]http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/415/sc ... 553377.jpg[/imgwh]
This is battle.net 0.5. Blizzard seems to think this bloated, wasteful interface is an improvement over wc3 which did not require you to scroll down to see the entire player list. The only improvement over sc1 in all of Battle.net 2.0 is that you can drag players around to change teams. There are no chat rooms, no Online Replays, and not much hope for seeing either before an expansion right now. We have yet to hear if chat rooms will come at all - the "group" system seems to hint that Blizzard is doing all they can to avoid adding them. Why?


But the editor is 10x as bad.

Even just the Terrain editor is weird and haphazard. It seems as though Blizzard ignored previous editors like Earth 2150, Neverwinter Nights 2, even Titan Quest. Starcraft 2's editor boasts -100 to +100 height levels but only three cliff levels, the map size is still restricted to 256x256 - a problem when Sc2's units and buildings are bigger than sc1 and utterly crippling for major mods or campaigns - and the actual tools leave a great deal to be desired.

[imgwh 640x400]http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/450/waht2.jpg[/imgwh]

My biggest gripes with terrain editing are the placement tool and water. You need multiple types of water for every height level, and the placement tool is nearly useless in determining how stuff is going to actually be placed. It is exceptionally difficult to make straight, symmetrical walls and water can only be placed in these big squares. On the bright side, you have a LOT of options to play with regarding water. It's just the interface that is bad.

[imgwh 640x400]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/24/waht3.jpg[/imgwh]

This is the Titan Quest map editor. Note the placement gizmo but, more importantly, you can tell the editor how big the tool is on top of a height level that is not dependent on the water type itself. This is what sc2's editor needs to look like by release. Any less is simply laziness.

But, wait. Blizzard does not actually support their editor. All this talk about their editor and they do not communicate with modders nor do they physically support the editor itself.

Can't be that bad, though, right?

Enter the Data Editor. Blizzard's most hyped and overblown part of the toolset.

The Data Editor is the most disorganized, lazily arranged application I have ever seen in my entire life. Unit Name and Unit Description are on totally opposite ends of the list and, when you switch it to GUI mode, you are met with every developer's worst nightmare - this hideous mess.

[imgwh 640x400]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/563/wtfab.jpg[/imgwh]

Now, hold on. Let's take a step back and think back. What were we working with in Starcraft 1? Hint - it wasn't Staredit.

[imgwh 640x547]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8291/editor1.jpg[/imgwh]

This is Datedit, the successor to Arsenal. Programmed by BroodKiller, this editor's interface has been perfected over years of community feedback and with my personal guiding hand. Note how clean and simple to use it is. Sections are divided by tabs and attributes are organized by relationship - unlike sc2, health and shields aren't separated by score options.

Yeah, sc2 has a lot more options. That's no reason for it to be as sloppy as it is.

[imgwh 640x547]http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3536/editor2.jpg[/imgwh]

Datedit unit flag editor. Looks simple, doesn't it? That's because it is. Anyone can jump into this editor and do whatever they want with it. Myself, an ancient modder, was immediately lost and confused in sc2's clusterfuck disaster. The prospect of making a project anywhere near the scale of what I'd been producing in previous games using this interface is overwhelmingly terrifying.

[imgwh 640x547]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2339/editor3.jpg[/imgwh]

Datedit weapons.dat editor. The only problem any newbie has ever come to me regarding this editor is unexpected crashes from changing weapon behaviors from non-existent iscript headers on certain graphics. Something you'd be highly unlikely to encounter in sc2 seeing as you could turn ANYTHING into a weapon in wc3. Oh, wait. I've heard of people having problems with something as simple as making a new unit. Personally, when I duplicated a water entry it reset the duplicate's altered settings.

Sc2's editor looks powerful but I expect few major mods to ever be created, just like Warcraft 3. Did I mention that SC2's "mod" system is just a campaign editor like wc3? You can't actually make a real mod in Starcraft 2 without using external editors yet again. It seems to me that Blizzard doesn't even know what a mod really is - something that globally changes the entire game. But whatever, that's really easy to get past (replace patch mpq in latest version patch folder).

In any event, the data editor has left me without hope for any salvation. For years Blizzard has ignored all of my efforts to communicate with them and try to help them design the layout of their editor. Now I am met with this disaster and am asking myself, "What next?"

I do not like Sc2. I do not like what Blizzard has done to it. After we had worked so hard to establish standards and usable, good programs in Starcraft 1 and Diablo 2, Blizzard just throws us this in sc2. Their excuse for the terrible interface is "Making maps is a very technical job". Um, yeah.

I don't know what else there is I can say. I've used a lot of bad editors in my life, but few editors I've come across are this badly laid out. Maybe they'll fix it, but judging by Brett Wood's response with wc3 (who is lead for sc2's editor), I have serious doubts of major, necessary changes being made. I'm sure everyone will enjoy triggers and terrain just like they did with wc3. Just as I'm sure campaigns and mods will be very rare like wc3.

[Xenon]

I am of the minority when I say these things. I am one of only a handful of people who think this way.

Don't be so sure, I think you have a lot of good points. The decision to remove casting targeting on the wireframe panel is batshit insane.

Part of the disorganization of unit properties is caused by the field having a category of "None", which should be fixed eventually (which isn't to say they will actually fix it). I agree, most of the dialogs are terribly laid out, often many screens long vertically while wasting a lot of horizontal space.

[Falchion]

Myself, Mesk, have never been that much of a pro-modder, even less a voice actor, writer, 3d artist and multi-player gamer.  I'm just a single-player, just that, curious on stuff.  I don't have the eons of experience you have, and I don't wish I was you, given you sink on meds and all that.  Still, I try to live, and I admit that's quite an area I get myself pretty good at.

I've seen the editor itself through screens and it looks somewhat basical than DatEdit.  But I've never tasted it, and I don't plan so until the gold is released, like I said, I'm patient.  I had to wait more than three years just to have full SC and BW ISOs, so why the heck to rush it?  Eh?

On gameplay, true I've seen overused Marauders and Colossi, alright, but also I've noticed some strategic gameplay  changes I wasn't aware of until SCLegacy.org woke me up to them.  The example is dividing the Dragoon between dark and light, light and heavy, Stalker and Immortal.  It somewhat gives a weird feeling of cornering on SC2 TvP, as, while you charge the Immortals on front, distracting the player, you can get an Obs up top, blink Stalks and then get'em by the balls.  That's a quite basic, but solid example of confusing and flanking.

For five years, Mesk, five years, failure after failure, I've been adapting more and more to the rules of modding world.  I know that, if I don't have any strength proof on screenshots, on anything original, my chances at releasing Duality (That went on don't know how many damn changes) or any other campaign at best will be zilch, nada.  But, so what?  I learned, now I can do things in IceCC, quite basical, but somewhat close to you.  In 3D, I came close as well to SgtHK, especially after I learned the property of lightning.  Voice acting, is quite rusty for me and I may have to polish it once I return to consolidating my project further.  But editing is something I can quite do with competence.  Of course things are changing, Iskatu, that's the passing of time.  New methods need to be done, the best we can do is get used to it.  At best, I can bet Blizz guys don't like it as well, but that's lack of options, and quite understandable as well.

Thing is, Mesk, you are getting quite untrustworthy, I'm also a faithless man.  You don't even want to believe this editor may be better with age, as the guys in Blizzard may realize and fix it later.  Jesus, they are above the bullshit of wanting to do everything perfect at first time. But compared to EA, I choose safely Blizzard as it is, especially after the cock-crap they've done with Command and Conquer 4.  Pink lasers?  Sorry, gay audiences only.

Also, on personal comment on my project and that may bridge another point of mine it's that I don't consider Duality the most original nor the best.  For me, it's just a rip-off and mixover on Warhammer 40.000, which I came to know only on Dawn of War.  I've got the Space Marines' armor and mixed with Tau tech, making the Dark Eldar ultimately use it.  I've tarnished gameplay as well, introducing some rather useless and imitating units.  But I ask myself, "so what"?  I quite like it, it's got solid story and gameplay, ripped off to?  Perhaps.  But I like it, and that's what's keeping me going on it.  The other people out there also won't quite matter if they're doing bullshit or not, and on this I mean not only modders, but also EA, Blizzard, THQ and Petroglyph.  They like it, so who are we to rant on it?

Who are we to just keep criticizing just wonderful, pure, innocent people, without seeing the good things on it?  It's clear we don't deserve it!  We need to change, not them, but ourselves!  LONG LIVE THEM!  DOWN WITH US!!!

Also, sorry for all the bullshit I've wrote. XD

[Thalraxal]

Well, you've pretty much listed most of my concerns about the game, so I'm going to echo the doubt that you're in the minority here.

Now, I'm coming at this from the point of view of a campaigner, any modding skills I have are directly related to that.  I've used ArsenalZero and got to be quite familliar with it, and I know my way around WC3's unit editor, despite producing very little with it.  So, despite it being a mess, I'm confident I can still make something with GalaxyEdit's DataEdit.  I'm also hopeful that this isn't going to be the "final" version of GalaxyEdit.  I fail to see how giving us a broken editor is going to help the game in any shape, way or form.

To me, Blizzard's outright refusal to cut units that just aren't fitting into the game worries me the most.  They had no qualms about it in WC3 (Elven Ranger, Night Elf Assassin, flying heroes, Orc Warlord, 98% of the RPG elements), and having dug around in StarCraft's MPQs and DAT files, you can see signs of the same sort of thing.  The Mothership's had its abilities rehauled at least four times, and that's not counting who knows how many internal builds.  They keep on struggling to find a role for the Thor.  These units are simply not fitting in the game at all, and yet Blizzard keeps on struggling to justify keeping them in.  I have no doubt that Old Blizzard would have cut those units and saved them for an expansion when they had a clearer idea of how to make them work.

[imgwh 640x480]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/ ... cmd0-3.png[/imgwh]
Sometimes you have to admit that something is just not going to work and that the best place for it is the cutting room floor.

At this point, I'm pretty much convinced that Blizzard is too set in their ways to change the game enough to make it comparable to SC1 straight out of the box.  Still, as you noted, there are going to be two expansions.  They've already stated their intent to make it more playable as time goes on.  There's plenty opportunity to turn the train around, and I think that Blizzard will take advantage of it.

So far, I'm getting the impression that for SC2, unlike previous Blizzard games, singleplayer and multiplayer are two very different beasts.  So at the very least, we should have an entertaining singleplayer experience, all future lorelols aside.  Besides, even if there are only going to be three player-made SC2 campaigns, I still look forward to playing them.

[Xelxiuz]

Don't take this personally Mesk, but look at it from Mike Morwhateverthefuckhisfaceis' perspective; you can't make money off Gundam Century 2. You can however make money off the next DOTA.

And Blizzard did admit it. SC1 was more of a community driven thing than their own effort. They pretty much acknowledged they got lucky. Best part was Dustin talking like he was part of it despite him wanking it to his Orcas at westwood back then.

Point being, if you aren't part of their business model, tough luck.

[IskatuMesk]

Pretty much. But mappers will suffer just as much as modders will. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot by driving away potential mappers who could be making Premium maps for them.

[Xelxiuz]

But if they want to prevent shooting themselves in the foot, that takes additional resources. Something they either don't have, or don't want to spend. That pool of money isn't going to sustain Samwise and Browder's fat asses by being used ya know.

[RazorclawX]

Pretty much. But mappers will suffer just as much as modders will. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot by driving away potential mappers who could be making Premium maps for them.

You weren't going to make Premium maps to begin with and you know it.

[IskatuMesk]

ok

[wibod]

Pretty much. But mappers will suffer just as much as modders will. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot by driving away potential mappers who could be making Premium maps for them.

You weren't going to make Premium maps to begin with and you know it.

herp derp he never said he was making Premium maps, he's talking in general. If he's scared away by the interface I'm sure other people will be as well.

[Black Dream]

Mesk, you keep complaining that you are a minority and not affecting anyone.  You aren't.

Every time I look at this thread, I get more depressed on how Starcraft 2 has changed.  Your posts reveal the weaknesses that are now apparent in Starcraft 2, and scare me away from this game.

And I think that's a good thing.

If enough people realize what is happening to Blizzard, maybe they will pay attention.  Or, even better, someone will start a new game company and create a real sequel to Starcraft. 

On your Youtube channel you seem surprised that people don't want a SC2 beta key.  Many other people have hopefully realized what you said about this game, and are afraid of it.  I know that I will not try out for a key, because I am worried that I will see every flaw and discover the pit Blizzard is falling into.  I guess I just want to stay in my bubble and pretend that Starcraft Brood War was their best game, and they will never do worse.

I hope you continue to show people what is wrong with Starcraft 2 and hopefully even Blizzard.

If people find this post irreverent or stupid, I can remove it or edit it.  It is literally my first post, after all.

[Alevice]

I'm still f the opinion that people really ought to form their own opinions and not judge something based on other people's opinions.

[Xelxiuz]

Minority is relative to one's context Black Dream, and you are clearly not using his.