Campaign Creations

Well, when companies boast moddability they obligate themselves to deliver. Companies like Epic have met that challenge. This will be a big challenge for Blizzard.

Triggers are really easy in WC3.  All you have to know is that conditions are just what they are - conditions in order to trigger actions.  That's the extent of how complicated they are.  There may be many different kinds of conditions, but they all do the same thing, they wait until something has happened before they trigger an action.  And actions are just as simple, they are what you want to actually do once a condition is met.  Again, there may be many different actions, some more complicated then the others, but seeing what they all do requires nothing more than experimentation.  Simple logic is the key to understanding the editor.  A programming background only helps because programming itself is also based on simple logic.  If A equals B then initiate action C.  If action C is initiated then initiate action D.  And so forth.

Now's the time to learn, find some custom WC3 maps, it doesn't matter what they are, and play them.  Then open them up and see what they did.  Try finding specific events that you saw in-game and try to find them in the trigger editor.  This is a really easy way to learn and it teaches you a lot.  This is how I learned StarCraft, and I did this a few times for WC3's editor.  It's been a couple of years since I touched WC3's editor, but I'm not intimidated at all by SC2's editor.  If I was, I definitely wouldn't be spending so much time preparing for it.  The reason I'm not intimidated, is because I know they will continue to have the same basic conditions and actions that have made using the editor so easy to work with in the past.

I will probably never get into any sort of programming aspect of SC2.  That may limit what I'm able to do, but since I'm not making a mod, that isn't a big deal for me.

Too bad everyone's paranoia of someone stealing their amazing work has resulted in virtually every single map being protected. Might have been different when wc3 was young, but now you'll be hard pressed to find anything open source.

I'm not someone who's good with technobabble like wc3's triggers. Starcraft I could understand, wc3 is just too time consuming and overcomplicated for many of the things I had to do.

Okay looks like they are using something similar to warcraft3. You have the general simple GUI script, as well being able to fine tune/ take more control with there c scripting language.

Trigger Editor

    * Users will have access to a user-friendly Trigger Editor, which will allow beginner and intermediate map designers to make advanced maps without having to learn the particular details of the scripting language.
    * The editor for StarCraft II will be very easy to use for new players to create their own custom maps and games.
    * Any limits on regions or triggers will be at least in the thousands.
    * ALL script functionality from the underlying language should also be exposed in the Trigger Editor UI.
    * The editor will support text coloring, unit coloring, and neutral player units.
    * It should be possible through customized ability data and/or triggers to stop/alter missiles in-flight.
    * Weather effect technology has not yet been finalized. However, even if weather effects do not affect gameplay normally, it would be possible to drive both the desired weather effects and associated gameplay effects through triggers.
    * It will be possible to use the full 3D cinematics mechanic from the single player campaign in the map editor

Scripting Language

    * StarCraft II's editor uses a proprietary scripting language that is based largely on C with some special parameters specific to the game (note: this language is not the WCIII scripting language JASS).
    * This editor will have many more scripting options available to users, and will allow for even more user creativity in their maps than the Warcraft III/StarCraft editors.

http://www.scraftwiki.net/StarCraft_II_Map_Editor

IskatuMesk wrote:

I just hope that StarEdit2 is not going to require users to have sublime understanding of triggering and shit. I mean, moddability usually comes with a lot of confusion on my part. Cheesy

You can bet that just like in wc3 you'll need to have a very strong understanding of triggering to do anything unique or decent.

An actual mod will probably require programming knowledge, also just like wc3.

Fuck then.

Desler wrote: Simple logic is the key to understanding the editor.  A programming background only helps because programming itself is also based on simple logic.  If A equals B then initiate action C.  If action C is initiated then initiate action D.  And so forth.

Is it just me, or does the fact that the logic of triggering is so simplistic make it more difficult initially to comprehend? I didn't understand switches for months in StarEdit, and one day it was just like an explosion of understand as I grasped the constant instantly and understood it's complete potentials.

It depends on how much other programming or web coding you've done beforehand.  Switches weren't too much of a pain but the most important news is that SCII will not be using anything like Jass which is going to be the most welcome news of all.

That thing Auirs linked doesn't tell me anything new besides cock stroking is the new thing in town. In wc3 you could stop/alter missiles but it required your own goddamn physics system like what Xenon made for LoL and I can't imagine something that complex being available to anyone besides people who sleep with LUA books under their pillows.

I am however very curious what blizzard calls Data-driven. That term is a little... broad. In SoaSE, it means you can interchange buffs all over the place, which is basically all you can do in that game. It lets you do some neat stuff but it's also quite limited.

Is it just me, or does the fact that the logic of triggering is so simplistic make it more difficult initially to comprehend?

Wc3's triggers work in a way that can make some advanced things seem oh so easy, but extremely simple, basic stuff can require tons triggers to accomplish. This is assuming the triggers you're working with actually work correctly. Want to screw with the music playlist or music in general? Think again!

That was my issue with WorldEdit.. I could see how it worked to create amazing triggers.. But if I just wanted to move a unit, it seemed to require these.. Booleans (lost already) and other randomness.

IskatuMesk wrote: In wc3 you could stop/alter missiles but it required your own goddamn physics system like what Xenon made for LoL and I can't imagine something that complex being available to anyone besides people who sleep with LUA books under their pillows.

Ha ha, I'll take that as a compliment. I'm curious as to what you can do with projectiles in SC2 (being able to stop them with the Time Bomb ability shows promise for other stuff). It would be annoying to have to use dummy units to, say, make them move in a sine wave pattern or split into other shots.

Lavarinth wrote: Booleans (lost already)

This is funny because the "switches" you mentioned in StarEdit are the same thing.

Lavarinth wrote: That was my issue with WorldEdit.. I could see how it worked to create amazing triggers.. But if I just wanted to move a unit, it seemed to require these.. Booleans (lost already) and other randomness.

EVENTS: UNIT IS SELECTED
CONDITIONS: TYPE OF SELECTED UNIT IS FOOTMAN
ACTIONS: MOVE (UNIT) TO CENTER OF (LOCATION)

what

A boolean is a 'yes' 'no' statement. 0 or 1.

If boolean= yes
do something

if boolean = no
do something else

IskatuMesk wrote: That thing Auirs linked doesn't tell me anything new besides cock stroking is the new thing in town. In wc3 you could stop/alter missiles but it required your own goddamn physics system like what Xenon made for LoL and I can't imagine something that complex being available to anyone besides people who sleep with LUA books under their pillows.

    * StarCraft II's editor uses a proprietary scripting language that is based largely on C with some special parameters specific to the game (note: this language is not the WCIII scripting language JASS).

Its still a scripting language, thats based C. So you could look up some simple c tutorials and you will be ready to go in no time

http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html#ctutorial

Yeah I understood booleans eventually. But it's not the only kind of option available, there was like integers, etc. And a simple kid trying to make a map would have to know quite a bit to understand most of those terms.

Yes! My 4 year course on Computer Science with special regard to programming languages and understanding various forms will come in use! If it is powerful enough I might be able to achieve some damn nifty things with it.

Really what makes the RTS games from Blizzard stand out the most is the ability to create your own style of gameplay within it.