Campaign Creations

@Falchion, removing art does not equal removing data editor functionality. That doesn't even make any sense. As seen in HKS's modding thread, basically nothing is hardcoded it seems.

@Krazy,  I don't consider not including crappy art a "huge" blow to modding. Not even fucking close. I would expect that since modding a community venture, the community would handle it, like we always have. Also, SC1 is a very old game and not good for a comparison. A better example is WC3, which has a crapton of models, awesome and shitty, for modders to use in their maps. All community made/edited models.

Blizzard is giving you a tool and a bunch of art. Are you really bitching that you aren't going to get some units, most of which we've probably never seen and probably look like shit? Units that, because they're so shitty, would look as mismatched and out of place as the majority of shitty sprites from SC1 modding? The silver surfer looked like ass. So did the old thor, and terran structures. And the old stalker. And the old "raven" unit.

We don't need their modding tools. We always make our own, somehow. Them giving anything is a bonus really, compared to most companies they give some amazing tools.

They altered to their statement to units seen in single player would be included in the editor, which doesn't exactly mean all SC1 units

The old units I could care less about, except it's more of a situation where the more people have to play with the more content they are without having to seek our modelers, texture artists, riggers, animators, etc. I'll completely agree they may have appeared terrible, though.

A. Brood War also had many hard counters (Firebats vs. Zerglings).

Failure at reading. It clearly implied the bonus damage, not the game mechanics of how a unit attacks.

Q. Will we ever be able to play as the Xelnaga?

What a stupid question. It should be asking what capacity of implementation will the Xel'Naga be implemented during each pack with the scale set on TFT's Naga race (IE: Units, buildings, etc etc).

And clearly not enough people are asking about why the flying fuck they still have the Torch Cherokee.

Krazy wrote: They're saying they're not going to include all sc1 units.  That could easily mean a variety of units that formed core parts of sc1 gaming mechanics--like the arbiter and defiler.  That would mean that "remakes" of sc1 maps would be basically impossible. 

Until someone makes those models on their own. Which will happen. Because even if they gave us amazing renditions of ALL classic units someone would bitch about them being cartoony and remake them anyway. Seriously, art is the last thing you need to get done for a mod, get your gameplay down first, worry about art later.

I do agree though, they did say all SC1 units back in the day, that is something they have gone back on now it seems. We will have to see what units don't make the cut.

My suggestion? If art is that important, find an artist to work with or Learn to model.

WB wrote: My suggestion? If art is that important, find an artist to work with or Learn to model.

So how you doin', modeler?

WB wrote: If you want a silver surfer, make one, or find someone to make one.

buahahaha

As a wc3 modder you can't possibly suggest anyone in the Blizzard community outside of cc, especially considering it's wc3 dominated, can be depended on to make anything even half-assed -

My suggestion? If art is that important, find an artist to work with or Learn to model.

oh jesus christ yes you are

Well, I guess you're going to have to remember how things work, don't you?

Seriously, art is the last thing you need to get done for a mod, get your gameplay down first, worry about art later.

I guess you're right - if you're making some kitbash based on the original sc universe. I'm not even going to try to talk to you about original projects and how you need to make custom animations for shit like iscript but ok buddy you go ahead and think that.

There are four elements in making a mod or campaign that all hold equal value to each other.

Gameplay
Graphics
Sound
AI

If you skimp on any one of those your project will be met with pain and misery. The whole GAMEPLAY IS EVERYTHING is an old and tired argument that doesn't mean shit. For a mod, immersion is everything. If you don't have that you have already failed to build the foundation for your gameplay because you already aren't introducing anything new or interesting. And if your assets are utterly awful like PR's, then your immersion will fail even more than it would have without them. Well, I haven't seen any good animators in wc3's side of the community yet.

You also know my fucking brain damage prevents me from doing anything I fucking want to do. Believe me, if I could fucking model characters and animate and UV I wouldn't even be touching games anymore, I'd be skipping right to the heart of creation.

Anyways, I'm more pointing out the ETHICS of going back on their word yet again.

Also, it looks like Creep could be hardcoded because we can't find any references to how it's working at all except for placement and such. Wanted to turn it into lava or try to make a second creep... currently not possible.

Also replacing creep textures with the lava ones yielded a whole host of wtf from the engine. All sorts of fading and blend weirdness.

Falchion - A unit can be made to take at maximum 15 seconds to turn around according to what HKS has told me which is pretty fucking slow. I'd be more interested in the models. The old thor is like... basically the same as the new one, it just has moar guns on it.

/e

Also, for the record, I have three full GEC's (Gameplay Elements Concepts) in my head that help me build gameplay. One for fleet mods, one for RPG's, and a more general one. I already have all of my gameplay figured out that is cross-compatible on any game engine, conforming to limitations and such. Graphics are my #1 concern when entering a project now because they are the only thing I can't make.

I'd like to point out that during SC1, mods that worked in other situations than the intended maps also acted as semi-conversions even if unintentional, and depending on the changes, could actually be quite nifty and give more replay value in the game play department. Of course I doubt that will be the case in SC2.

Krazy wrote: They're saying they're not going to include all sc1 units.  That could easily mean a variety of units that formed core parts of sc1 gaming mechanics--like the arbiter and defiler.  That would mean that "remakes" of sc1 maps would be basically impossible. 

Reaver, spider mine, dragoon, and medic is in. They already have the models in the beta assets MPQ.

So, is the butt-ugly old Infestor model still in the game?


Also, people have to keep in mind we have NO idea what the campaign-specific units are. Warcraft 3 had a lot of them and some of them still got recycled into the campaign itself, such as the Slave Master was a former Orc Hero and the Warlock was the former Shaman model (while the current Shaman model used to be a Hero model for the Spirit Walker), and of course the Revenant uses the original Death Knight model.

Of course I'm still kind of angry about the Cold Wraith model being jyped... hell the one I made was a reasonable approximation.


And to be quite honest I don't expect to see any of the old Zerg units as campaign units save the Lurker (of course we still have all of the iconic units remaining in melee already); that really goes against what Kerrigan was planning with her forced evolution.

Yes, it is likely many of them are going to be used in the campaign (especially the Merc compound I imagine, that was too good of a building model, and perhaps the Swarm Guardian), but a lot of them are also probably never going to be seen again.

IskatuMesk wrote: Yes, it is likely many of them are going to be used in the campaign (especially the Merc compound I imagine, that was too good of a building model, and perhaps the Swarm Guardian), but a lot of them are also probably never going to be seen again.

The Merc compound last I played the campaign wasn't as cool as the holograph version.

Falchion wrote: Oh, Mag, if I were Mesk, I'd say I wasn't interested in the textures, but in the alpha unit mechanics, like the slow turning Thor, the Cobra and such.

I'm gonna throw it out there that the cobra is still in the game as a campaign unit. As to whether or not it has the same mechanics is unclear, but it's in there.

Q. Will units that have been cut from the game still be in the galaxy editor, or later-on units from original StarCraft?

A. Units that have been cut from the game completely will NOT be in the editor. However, there are many units that make an appearance in the single-player campaign that WILL be available to use in the editor, such as the Medic, Firebat, and Goliath.

There's no need to be angry about this quote for CLEARLY the Silver Surfer will be a unit in the new expansion!

Starcraft 2: Rise of the Silver Surfer.

@Mesk, ya, Its shitty that they are going back on their word. But that is far from a huge blow to modding. Also don't sell yourself short, you've come a long way very quickly in regards to 3D. My suggestion to you is to focus on mech-like stuff, as a stepping stone to animation. You can do the mechanical stuff pretty well, next up is animating.

And as RCX said, we have NO IDEA what kind of shit is in the campaign. If you were at Blizzcon, you saw the civilian ships and brutalisks...I'm hoping for more high quality assets like those than some fucking silver surfer unit.

Patience...SC2 is too long in the making for them to fuck it up, especially after the successes (though limited) of wc3.