Campaign Creations

Desler wrote: Speaking of which, the only camera angle we've seen, or I have managed to see, besides the top down view, was briefly in the Terran Demo when the Thor changed modes.  If you look, you can briefly see a black backdrop where a 'sky' is supposed to be (like in WC3).  I was terribly unimpressed with the skys in WC3, so I really hope they make them a lot better this time.  Everything else in the camera-mode view was pretty spot on, I watched that part of the Terran demo several times just to glimpse everything, since that mode is where the heart of in-game cutscenes are going to come from, and we've only seen it once (to my knowledge).  I still have a lot of questions, but most are insignificant.  Like asking about different unit animations, how portraits will be handled (you saw the big portraits in the Protoss demo, and most of the Terran portraits were still defaulted to that robot woman who communicates with the magistrate), just little stuff like that, stuff no one but campaign makers really think about.


Nice imitation Taeradun, though I don't know if you'd be the Samods equivilant of 'Desler'.  =)

I hope skies/space or whatever in SC2 aren't just background files - it'd be very interesting if they, too, were 3D. Not only that, they should also be customizable(like that planet in the Space tileset, it'd be interesting if they could be replaced, edited or selected from a list of available planets). Regarding unit portraits, something interesting about them is that they will actually match the transmission's text - now that'll be a really interesting feel.

Camera view was shown in some fan-recorded Blizzcon videos, I believe you can still find some of them on Youtube. Only the standard WC3ish camera view, but still it was neat.

Something I'm excited about is the new tileset editor. Dustin himself, in a past Q&A, said that SC2 will allow tileset customization in a whole new level - something unseen even in WC3. His words were really generic, but he said something among the lines of "mapmakers will be able to make their own tilesets". Although WC3 allowed tileset editing, Dustin's comment made it clear that SC2 will offer many more possibilities. That's fantastic, each campaign could feature its brand new tileset... well, each map could take place in its own tileset, actually.

Adding the gameplay and atmosphere of SC and the awesomeness of an editor more capable than Worldedit definitely works wonders toward making a great UMS/campaign scene.

More features can be problematic for campaign makers... I know I used to have a problem knowing where to draw the line on how far I wanted to modify a map for a campaign when all I wanted to do was to tell a story.  From a creative standpoint, I know I could make a potentially fun campaign just using the basic core abilities WC3 has.  But this new generation of potential campaign makers will probably go chasing after teams to make units, tilesets, cinematics, and whatever else, while never realizing the potential that the base game has itself, and how even restricting yourself to those base options still provides you with a huge and powerful array of features to create a campaign.  Though we've already had this discussion many times - I know.  I guess seeing people get excited about more and more features means the potential for more would-be campaign makers to fall on their faces getting bogged down trying to make use of all the features.

I think everyone here has learned the lesson or seen it enough to know its a slippery slope.  Since a lot of people are going to be pouring their soul into their own creation once SC2 releases, just thought I'd retread this observation once again for the benefit of everyone here.

I´ll have to agree completely - all the best Starcraft campaigns that I've played are based on the core game, and even most of the "minigames" featured (and most seen on LotC, CI and such) are usually situations to test the player's skill under restricted environments. Something like "you have this group of Dragoons, Zealots and Templar, now get past this huge Terran blockade": everything using just the basic game units. The amount of fun situations you can do with just a few unit combinations is fantastic. Add in a dynamic environment such as an installation and a few boss fights, and it's not hard to create interesting gameplay. Besides, SC2 will have its melee units, the SC:BW original units, heroes(campaign/UMS-only) the custom Xel'naga units(Blizzard has confirmed this) and hopefully a vast array of "civilian" units for mapmaking purposes. So, I think we'll have our hands full for many years to come.

The way I see it, it's mostly about knowing your limitations. I usually worked fast on my own maps, but mod work was tiresome. Obviously it's not the same with Mesk or RCX who are master modders and can get things done fast. In the other hand, I believe TAC Episode 3 and Armageddon's Call(I doubt many people still remember this one) can speak for what happens when a project grows too dependant on brand new features.

Desler wrote: Speaking of which, the only camera angle we've seen, or I have managed to see, besides the top down view, was briefly in the Terran Demo when the Thor changed modes.  If you look, you can briefly see a black backdrop where a 'sky' is supposed to be (like in WC3).  I was terribly unimpressed with the skys in WC3, so I really hope they make them a lot better this time.

As Meta said, it seems that background stuff with the planet and little asteroids and stuff that we've seen even since the first screenshots in the space platform tileset are all part of the Skybox; and it appeared to include smaller 3D objects as part of it rather than just being a few 2D images. Something similar would then likely be visible above the terrain as is seen below it in the "holes" in space platform terrain. Whether they do as good a job with the planetside skyboxes as with that one in space, and if SC2 itself includes more than one space skybox with different planets, nebulae etc in the background, remains to be seen, but at least the capability seems to exist for modders to make an awesome skybox of their own if they want to "go chasing after teams to make units, tilesets, cinematics, and whatever else".

Desler wrote:Nice imitation Taeradun, though I don't know if you'd be the Samods equivilant of 'Desler'.  =)

hahaha hell no I wouldn't

do I smell SA vs CC rivalry? 
j/k

Anyway, I am getting really tired of waiting.... There hasn't been a real update to the SC2 site since 2007

Another thing I hope they work could potentially work on are effects like deformations.  The ones in WC3 were alright but they took a huge chunk of system resources to perform.  Custom particle effects would be nice too, being able to change the lighting effects of special effects, stuff like that.  I heard them mention something about using physics, though I don't know to what extent they are referring or what specifically they have in mind for that.  They should have a version of the editor up that you can mess around with at the next Blizzcon.  I'd -definitely- attend if they had that, though I'm thinking of attending the next one regardless.

chris wrote: do I smell SA vs CC rivalry? 

nah I'm just being a dick stealing other people's avatars again

The physics engine is capable of emulating things like gravity, things going down the hills, losing speed due to innertia and such. Karune stated in a past Q&A that these effects are currently graphical only, but I hope we can change this somehow in the editor. It feels weird to see a Battlecruiser get shot down, fall on top of a squad of Marines... and nothing happens.

About customizing special effects... hmmm, it sounds sweet for cutscenes. Explosions and such seem to make small craters and holes in the ground: being able to place these would also be very interesting for a war zone.

Desler wrote: Another thing I hope they work could potentially work on are effects like deformations.  The ones in WC3 were alright but they took a huge chunk of system resources to perform.  Custom particle effects would be nice too, being able to change the lighting effects of special effects, stuff like that.  I heard them mention something about using physics, though I don't know to what extent they are referring or what specifically they have in mind for that.  They should have a version of the editor up that you can mess around with at the next Blizzcon.  I'd -definitely- attend if they had that, though I'm thinking of attending the next one regardless.

See you there.

Has anyone seen any terrain deformations in SC2? The game would probably have to keep track of two sets of terrain coordinates (the actual and the rendered one), because fog of war hides terrain deformations and if the projectiles have a true 3d velocity, any height discrepancies between players would cause desyncs.

Haven't seen those kind of deformations, no.  Though the deformations I was mentioning earlier were those done by triggers, I believe it was actually called deformation or something.  Can't say that I'd miss em either though to be honest.

Lavarinth wrote:

Desler wrote: Another thing I hope they work could potentially work on are effects like deformations.  The ones in WC3 were alright but they took a huge chunk of system resources to perform.  Custom particle effects would be nice too, being able to change the lighting effects of special effects, stuff like that.  I heard them mention something about using physics, though I don't know to what extent they are referring or what specifically they have in mind for that.  They should have a version of the editor up that you can mess around with at the next Blizzcon.  I'd -definitely- attend if they had that, though I'm thinking of attending the next one regardless.

See you there.

I envy you. Damn.

By the way, did you guys notice that the topic for this and the next month is mapmaking? http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.asp ... post493471

Still haven't read through it all, so I don't know if anyone suggested anything interesting.

Meta wrote:

Lavarinth wrote:

Desler wrote: Another thing I hope they work could potentially work on are effects like deformations.  The ones in WC3 were alright but they took a huge chunk of system resources to perform.  Custom particle effects would be nice too, being able to change the lighting effects of special effects, stuff like that.  I heard them mention something about using physics, though I don't know to what extent they are referring or what specifically they have in mind for that.  They should have a version of the editor up that you can mess around with at the next Blizzcon.  I'd -definitely- attend if they had that, though I'm thinking of attending the next one regardless.

See you there.

I envy you. Damn.

I think the highlight would now be running into Desler more than going for more SC2 info, hah.

There they go saying mods are maps again.

Doctor Doack wrote: There they go saying mods are maps again.

Those minor distinctions do seem to tug at your brain, knawing on the savory grey matter within, spilling the neuro filled nectar that is sanity and reason.  For the sake of all of our sanity, I do hope they correct their erroneous ways before we all suffer the horrid fate of having to endure the psychological punishment of these unforgivable mistakes.