Warlords and Merchants Discussion

[Mucky]

Well that did it. Thanks, HKS.

The unit I'm working on is pretty close to being done... barring a projectile glitch which I have no idea how to fix.

[Vetraeus]

Does it launch Thors that shoot Battlecruisers that shoot Queens that shoot Larva that shoot Lolis that shoot out tiny mustaches with 30000 damage and 1 HP?

[IskatuMesk]

Now, try to give them a beam weapon. Ha! The duplicator doesn't even handle the internal events of stuff like actors properly so they all get fucked up. That and beams have like 3 sets of shit that isn't linked to each other. That's why people never get beam weapons. They still need a fuckton of manual fixing just to get working after duplication.

[Ricky_Honejasi]

Since I presume Mucky is doing that new unit to get added on W&M, I want to mention a few things :

1) Do rename every duplicated thing (unit, model, etc. including actors) to minimize potential conflicts when I try to fuse it into W&M. A common thing would be ensure you got a very unique INTERNAL name (there is the shown unit name and the internal unit name) off the bat or add "Mucky" at the end of all internal names.

For example, if I got an actor called "Carrier2" and you got an actor "Carrier2" then I try to fuse your unit in, then things can go very wrong. Actors' internal names are the most likely ones that you would forget to rename and cause most issues.

2) Try to ensure your unit won't affect anything else. For example, if you intend to allow a max of 20 interceptors for your unit, ensure it doesn't make normal carriers able to get 20 interceptors as well. If you want a different damage value for that unit's interceptors, ensure it doesn't influence the normal carriers', etc.

If you are using something shared with another unit, odds are you will have to duplicate it (and fix whatever bullshit it made) unless it's 100% identical. The SC2 editor unlike WC3 does allow you to use a lot of shared stuff but modifying them have repercussions on all associated things.

I am aware that it's extra pain on top of just getting the goddamned unit to work but it's necessary.

EDIT :
A few more details :

3) If you intend to make a full-scale new unit, odds are it might be simpler to just duplicate most things (actors, effects, weapons, etc. but NOT upgrades) instead of just the wanted actor. It might be less annoying than to discover that you have to modify X weapon's damage thus you would have to make it (or finely duplicate stuff) down the road.

4) For duplicated beam weapons, a key thing is knowing that in the beam actor, it's often just the "Art - Beam" with a "2" added (ex : "BeamyWeapon2" instead of "BeamyWeapon") that you have to manually remove the "2" in the end REGARDLESS if you duplicated the base weapon or not, etc.

[Lavarinth]

Excellent tip: Never tint.

[Vetraeus]

To its divine amounts, after days of face-desking to my AI's auto-build and set intelligence, I have decided to take a break from building the AI up. And to broadcast a idea which I tested at numerous occassions to get it right, the easily counterable but not to friendly creation which would fall under "Elite Super Unit". I also have like 2 more.

Nuclear Baneling
--5000 HP/ 1 Armor, 0.5 per Upg. (Zerg Armor)
--0.43ms (Cannot be loaded into Transport)
--Upon death, releases a nuclear explosion dealing 3250 Damage (Ignores Armor contrib Ratios) in a surrounding area. (Friendly fire on)(Can be detonated on demand)
--Cost for Merchants/Warlords: 4250 Minerals, 3500 Gas, 50 supply.


Brutalisk
--2500 HP, 4 Armor, 0.5 Per Upg. (Zerg Armor, Benefits from Ultralisk Upgrades)
--1.43ms (Can be loaded into Hercules)
--Viscious Spew: 66-88 DmgVsMechanical AA (1.44as) (Benefits from Zerg Missile)
--Bladed Strikes: 150x2 Dmg AG (3.0as) (Benefits from Zerg Melee +10 Dmg Contrib - Max 210x2)
--[Passive]Frenzied Regeneration: When out of combat heals 4.8 HP/sec
--[Passive]Spiked Carapace: Units that attack the Brutalisk within 5 Range or less will have 20% of their damage reflected back at them.
--[Passive]Resistant Carapace: The Brutalisk only takes 50% damage from Spell-Based abilities.
--Death And Decay: The Brutalisk infests a nearby building dealing 100 Dmg/sec for 6 Seconds (costs 250 HP)
--Devour: The Brutalisk devours a nearby enemy unit to restore 100 HP. (Can only devour land units of 1x1 - 5x5)
--Cost for Merchants/Warlords: 2500 Minerals, 2500 Gas, 38 Supply.



The Archimedes -Battlecruiser-
--1500 HP/ 500 SP, 3 Armor, 0.5 Per Upg, 500 Energy
--1.22ms
--[Active]Siege Cannon: The Archimedes contains a very large cannon onboard that must manually be fired, the cannon is very long range and deals a devastating amount of damage. 22 Range, 450 Dmg, 18.88as.
--[Passive]Armageddon Batteries: The Archimedes contains auto-firing cannons along its side that fire at nearby targets while moving or stationary. 9 Range, 20x10 Dmg (Multi-Cannon Fire 2 Per Target), 4.80as
--[Passive]Heavily Plated Flagship Armor: The Archimedes only takes 50% damage from Spell-Based abilities.
--[Passive]Hydrostatic Repair Drones: The Archimedes has drones onboard that allow it repair internal and external even during fights. {2.8 HP/sec In-combat| 5.0 HP/sec Out of combat}
--[Passive]Field Sensors: The Archimedes has a long range detection grid allowing it so see nearby invisible units and detect incoming hostiles. {18 Sensor Tower Range, 8 Detection Range}
--[Active]Flash Cannon: The Archimedes releases an incredibly large source of pure energy at the target Unit/Building dealing 500-150 Line damage to anything along the trajectory to the target. (Costs 500 Energy)
--Cost to Merchants/Warlords: 3000 Minerals, 3000 Gas, 30 Supply.


Now, the Archimedes has been having problems but I'm sure mesk can figure out how to swap between passive and active skills, I'm trying to base it off the idea for the Voidray in Starbattle how it could swap between plasma and beam, or the Destroyer from Siegemode and regular mode, I wanted to make it unable to move while using the Siege Cannon. I literally have no clue

[IskatuMesk]

Never done anything with abilities in sc2. My experiments stopped at beams after they tore out my soul and defecated on it.

[Mucky]

IT IS READY

Alright, so unit stats have already been set in the editor, but I'll list them here for reference.

Yggdrasil
2000 HP
5 armor, 1.88 ms
1500/1000/20 minerals/gas/supply
Weapon:

• Locust Swarm: 120 hp, 0 armor, 9 damage, 75/25

Abilities:

• Spawn Spine Crawler: For 150 minerals, the Yggdrasil can start a Spine Crawler which finishes on its own. Takes 50 seconds to complete.
• Spawn Spore Crawler: 125 minerals and 30 seconds.

Ultraling
Has the same stats/costs as the Ultralisk, except it benefits from both the Zergling and Ultralisk upgrades, and is light instead of armored. They have Ludicrous Speed when fully upgraded.

Giant Baneling
250 HP
0 armor, 2.5 ms
250/250/4 minerals/gas/supply
Weapon:

• Fulminating Burst: 150 (+10 per upgrade), 300 (+20) to massive, 450 (+30) to structures, large AoE

Abilities:

• Explode: derp

Also, for no reason at all, the actor for the Yggdrasil broke. The unit would disappear off the map as soon as I ordered it to do something. I had to recreate the actor. Then, as soon as I removed the broken actor, the Yggdrasil and the Ultraling had their names change back to the parent Overlord and Zergling respectively. Blizzard... how about investing the metric fucktons of money you've made off of WoW into hiring programmers instead of god damned clowns?

EDIT: I should mention that I don't like how the Yggdrasil turned out. It needs more work. Aaand the projectile is still glitched.

[Ricky_Honejasi]

In terms of adding units, I will prefer to wait until you fix all the glitches (or wait until you are happy about them). It can be very painful to re-fuse the same unit over an existing unit OR to have to fix the very unit on the W&M map.

I could however add all the units that you consider done or are fairly sure there are no glitches.

Btw, for the Giant Baneling, I presume you would want it as a Combo unit (probably Lv2-3). However, I am not exactly sure about the Ultraling in terms of Merchant placement. :p

For the Ygg, it's obviously Elite Lv5.

[Mucky]

Both the Giant Baneling and Ultraling are intended to be Combo units. The Ultraling can probably be lv4-5. They're also both complete. Only the Yggdrasil needs more work.

I don't even know how to approach the projectile bug. It just spawns on the ground even though the unit firing is in the air. You'll see what I mean.

[UntamedLoli]

Not entirely sure why it happens but its mostly when a unit that didn't normally have a projectile attack gets one. The entire inheritance system is retarded.

[Ricky_Honejasi]

So after some quick tests :

-> Due to being able to mass spawn buildings, Spore Colonies off Ygg will also take 50 time (instead of just 30).
-> So far, I didn't see Ygg disappear. As for the projectiles, I think they shoot at super-close ranges so you might only see them for like 0.25 sec unless I am blind. At worst, it doesn't look THAT bad.
-> Ygg can't manually target the player's own units (ex : to kill off for extra supply).
-> For creating Locusts, ill have to rewrite "[...] and shoot shit" to "[...] and shoot stuff" due to Blizzard's stupid zealous censorship.

[Mucky]

-> So far, I didn't see Ygg disappear.

That was already fixed. I was just complaining.

-> Ygg can't manually target the player's own units (ex : to kill off for extra supply).

This has been fixed. It seems the attack command button wasn't properly set to use the "Attack" ability.

-> For creating Locusts, ill have to rewrite "[...] and shoot shit" to "[...] and shoot stuff" due to Blizzard's stupid zealous censorship.

This has been begrudgingly fixed.

[IskatuMesk]

Projectile bug?

So, a few things I am noticing.

The projectiles for dragoons are still spawning from their Origin because they have no weapon hardpoint. At least spawn it from the head.

Reaver projectiles seem to be able to attack things at an unnatural distance in certain circumstances. I think it has to do with targets dying before the projectile hits them. It auto acquires some other target, sometimes at a very long distance away. HKS' reaver scarabs are hitting Empiria's marines from like 20-30 range away.

Ricky puts in everything he has to march across the map and attack me. Despite the combined efforts of HKS, Ricky, Empiria, and Vet, I STILL LIVE AHAHAHAHAHAH FUCKERS

[Ricky_Honejasi]

So I poked some changes for the upcoming FFS :

1) Warlord Defender is now revivable at 25% HP. (750/350 costs, 180 time)
2) Auto-Re-research no longer skip some research time for free.
3) Hybrid Spec now enforces relatively equal Merchant levels instead of a 3/3/3 cap to allow 5/5/5.
4) Added Mucky's units : Elite - Yggdrasil, Combo - Ultraling and Combo - Giant Baneling
5) Elite - Zeus got +1000 HP (to 4000). Reduced 10% collision.
6) Zeus' middle turrets no longer hit air, have 3 minimum range. (instead of 4, also it did 0 damage to air)
7) Hardened Photon Cannon upg caps at 45-25 (was 40-20 dmg).
8) Ultralisk's base damage back to 15(+20 vs armored) base.
9) Valkyries' attack speed from 2.5 to 2.2
10) Corsairs have +1 base damage.
11) Vultures have a maximum of 5 mines instead of 3.
12) Vultures' build time to 20 and have 15(+10 Light) damage instead of 10(+15).
13) Khaydarin Amulet's given starting energy is now 70 total (not 75).
14) Fixed bug for Merchant Vehicle Plating.
15) Landzones are now cancelable.