StarCraft: Vile Egression [Completed]

[Laconius]

It's because I forgot to add certain lines at the end of the Basilisk's attack iscript.

[thebrowncloud]

Alright, I've finally finished playing VE. Sorry it took so long. I've been quite busy lately. All in all, it was a VERY entertaining campaign with lots of varied gameplay styles and some pretty incredible mods. The voice acting was top-notch and sounded alot like what I have come to associate with protoss. The story was also rather well-written and I anticipate an addition to the series with much enthusiasm.

However, no campaign is perfect, and I must say that what stood out the most in your campaign on the negative side was the vocabulary in your script. It seems that you recognize that the protoss are of much higher intelligence than humans and they use more "advanced" words than a typical person would, but I feel like you overdid it in that regard. I was even sometimes tempted to pick up a dictionary at times and make sure I knew the correct definition of some of the words I saw and heard. Along with the advanced vocabulary, some words you used, such as 'ye' , 'thy', or 'thee' seemed a little too..... medieval? It just seemed out of place. I've read all the StarCraft books and played through the official Blizzard campaigns a quite a few times (well, not the books. they were good, but not 'reread them several times' good) and have never heard or read a protoss talk like that. It's not necessarily a negative, it just didn't seem to fit, imo.

The characters were quite good, but just a few suggestions of feedback:
-The relationship between Khashilar and Rastadon is quite apparently not a positive one, but how open they were seemed a little excessive. I've always gotten the impression that, when it comes to protoss, they are very subtle in terms of emotion. Just a thought.
-Imrian is quite an important and influential character, but at times I felt his personality seemed a little two-dimensional. I'm not quite sure how to explain it, but let me put it this way: when I saw Khashilar and Rastadon and the way they acted, I wanted to know more about their relationship and why they hated each other so. They had alot of appeal and something that seperated them from the other characters. I didn't feel that kind of appeal from Imrian. Idk, I'm not sure how to explain it, really...  :-\
-I really like what you did with the lurker boss battle (whose name escapes me, unfortunately). I'd really like to see more about his history when you make a new installment

Units (there isn't really much here on the negative side):
-I was very impressed with your immortal unit. The wireframe was really cool and it had some pretty nice firepower to it.
-In terms of the warblade, I actually found myself using zealots more. I'm not really sure why, but I realized that in the siege part on the way to the warp gate in the last mission.
-The Trilobyte was an interesting idea, but I didn't really see much xel'naga influences from it. It looked way too mechanical. Idk, i just saw more protoss influences in it than xel'naga

I would put a lore section in here, too, but I don't want to make the judging process easier for the judges. That's their job! Plus, I'm curious to see if they notice what i did. I'll leave it for them as a bit of a test..... mwuahahahahahaha!  ;)

And don't think that, just because most of the stuff I put was negative feedback that I didn't like it. I thought it was really good and you are a very talented campaign maker! I look forward to your next installment! To be honest, I hope it's a prequel. I want some history!  :)

[Laconius]

Hmm, my main influence for dialogue comes from Metathrom's work.  As for the "thy, ye, thou" stuff, there are BRIEF bits of it in StarCraft, and I wanted to expand on it. (Ex: ZERATUL: Stay thy hand Judicator, blah blah blah (during the Tassadar rescue mission)).  Personally, I felt I needed to go the "medieval" route to spice up their dialogue, since a lot of fan-based Protoss dialogue sounds too "Terran-ish" to me.

As for the Rastadon/Khashilar bitch fueds; I added those to get away from the kiss-ass loyalty scenarios that I witness all the time.  Their excessiveness is due to the absence of a Conclave dogma (since Aiur's infrastructure is in shambles), which would normally make them stfu and stay in line.

As for the units;
-Warblades deal explosive damage, which means they are a good counter against ultralisks and structures.  Since I wanted to abolish the use of DT's in the campaign, these guys were just a placeholder for their BW counterparts.
-The Trilobyte was meant to be a collaboration of both Xel'Nagan and Protoss Technology.  The way I see it is, if the Xel'Naga could construct space ships and such, couldn't they have made automatons akin to the Trilobyte as well?

Anyhow, thank you for your compliments, and I am glad you enjoyed the work I strew my soul into crafting.  Hopefully when I'm not so sick of working with SC's annoying-as-hell engine, I may get back to work again. 

[omega20]

some words you used, such as 'ye' , 'thy', or 'thee' seemed a little too..... medieval? It just seemed out of place. I've read all the StarCraft books and played through the official Blizzard campaigns a quite a few times (well, not the books. they were good, but not 'reread them several times' good) and have never heard or read a protoss talk like that.

Stay thy hand, Judicator. The stewards of Tassadar shall not fall while the Dark Templar live. Call off your guards and stand aside, and you may yet live to see another moonrise.

Zeratul, Vanilla SC Protoss mission 8 - The Trial of Tassadar

It may sound a bit medieval, as you say. But words and expressions like those differentiate the Protoss from the Terrans or any another race. You see, in general, we can say the Protoss are a 'medieval' race. Not because of their tech, we all know it's quite advanced, but because of their religion and beliefs. Before the fall of Aiur, the Conclave was some kind of 'Inquisition', with the DT labeled as heretics and a sovereign religion that they used to rule over all the Protoss. Indeed, in my opinion it's quite a perfect speech for the Protoss.

Also, you can found expressions like those in other fan-made campaigns. Hmm... Inspiration from FK, maybe?

[tipereth]

-I really like what you did with the lurker boss battle (whose name escapes me, unfortunately). I'd really like to see more about his history when you make a new installment

I thought Mithras was just a throw away bad guy, only there as foreshadowing of what the bad guys were doing.

[thebrowncloud]

some words you used, such as 'ye' , 'thy', or 'thee' seemed a little too..... medieval? It just seemed out of place. I've read all the StarCraft books and played through the official Blizzard campaigns a quite a few times (well, not the books. they were good, but not 'reread them several times' good) and have never heard or read a protoss talk like that.

Stay thy hand, Judicator. The stewards of Tassadar shall not fall while the Dark Templar live. Call off your guards and stand aside, and you may yet live to see another moonrise.

Zeratul, Vanilla SC Protoss mission 8 - The Trial of Tassadar

It may sound a bit medieval, as you say. But words and expressions like those differentiate the Protoss from the Terrans or any another race. You see, in general, we can say the Protoss are a 'medieval' race. Not because of their tech, we all know it's quite advanced, but because of their religion and beliefs.  Indeed, in my opinion it's quite a perfect speech for the Protoss.

Also, you can found expressions like those in other fan-made campaigns. Hmm... Inspiration from FK, maybe?

True, true. It was used before, but it just seemed a little much this time around. No big deal. I'm sure "use of vacabulary" won't be a criteria being judged, so it really doesn't matter. That is just my opinion.  :-\

Also, I haven't been here for very long, so I haven't played many of the other campaigns here. So, in my perspective, this is the first example i have seen of this in a campaign here. But, as I get more familiar with the content posted here, I'm sure that I will begin to know just how common this kind of thing is.

Before the fall of Aiur, the Conclave was some kind of 'Inquisition', with the DT labeled as heretics and a sovereign religion that they used to rule over all the Protoss.

Meh, "inquisitions" aren't necessarily old-fashioned. People have hated other people who are different forever. The KKK, nazis, and religious, fanatical homophobes have all been known to take violent action against the ones they hate and they don't talk like that.

Also, I've seen 'thy' in SC vanilla, but never 'ye' or 'thee'..... I'm gonna stop talking now, as I don't want to debate today. Especially when I am clearly going to be the one that isn't "in the know" when it comes to how common people believe this dialect to be.  :P

-I really like what you did with the lurker boss battle (whose name escapes me, unfortunately). I'd really like to see more about his history when you make a new installment

I thought Mithras was just a throw away bad guy, only there as foreshadowing of what the bad guys were doing.

Yeah, but his distaste for the zerg and that very 'foreshadowing' was what got me so intrigued with him. He seems like he knows alot and I would like to see his history.

[omega20]

-I really like what you did with the lurker boss battle (whose name escapes me, unfortunately). I'd really like to see more about his history when you make a new installment

I thought Mithras was just a throw away bad guy, only there as foreshadowing of what the bad guys were doing.

His history is pretty simple anyways. He hatched from that Homoncolus-whatever (may I know what does it means, anyways? It was used later in the campaign to name a Lesser Lurker-like minion of the bad DTs) Cocoon thing, fought Khashilar and died. I don't believe there's any big background history for him... Unless he transformed itself in a cocoon some time before his battle against Khashilar... kinda odd, though.

Yeah, but his distaste for the zerg and that very 'foreshadowing' was what got me so intrigued with him. He seems like he knows alot and I would like to see his history.

About his distaste of the zerg... well, in the last battle from map 3, some minions of the DTs are labeled as 'Hybrid'. I don't know if they're in fact Zerg/Protoss Hybrids. If they're, and Mithras is, too, perhaps he hates the Zerg because of his Protoss part. They seem to be enemies by nature, after all.

About him knowing a lot? Hmmm... well, perhaps he doesn't know as much as you believe him to know. He's just a sentient creature which have to obey to the orders of their masters. If they tell him to kill, he kills.

Meh, "inquisitions" aren't necessarily old-fashioned. People have hated other people who are different forever. The KKK, nazis, and religious, fanatical homophobes have all been known to take violent action against the ones they hate and they don't talk like that.

But the nazies weren't the rulers of the known world. They were stopped by the ones that believed on freedom and equality.
The Catholic Church Inquisition was (at its time), and anyone made something to stop them (and if they did, worse for them). My intention is to compare the Conclave with them. (Wow, a nazi Conclave. I never wanted to reach such extremes. I wonder how'd it have been... :p)

True, true. It was used before, but it just seemed a little much this time around. No big deal. I'm sure "use of vacabulary" won't be a criteria being judged, so it really doesn't matter. That is just my opinion.

Of course. Feel free to give your opinion, then. I'm not saying you're wrong. It can be I who am wrong, I don't know. That's my opinion.

Also, I haven't been here for very long, so I haven't played many of the other campaigns here. So, in my perspective, this is the first example i have seen of this in a campaign here. But, as I get more familiar with the content posted here, I'm sure that I will begin to know just how common this kind of thing is.

Play them then. I'm sure you won't get dissapointed. Also, this kind of thing isn't very common in many campaign. In fact, the only times I remember to have heard such kind of vocabulary is in FK and other Protoss campaigns. Never Terran or Zerg.

[Laconius]

Dammit, all this talk of Mithras is tempting me to go and use a phoenix down on him.  x_x

[thebrowncloud]

Dammit, all this talk of Mithras is tempting me to go and use a phoenix down on him.  x_x

Lol, resurrection isn't usually a good idea unless it can be explained in a rational and interesting way. The only reason why Stukov's resurrection didn't completely have me lose faith in Blizzard is that they made the mission "Deception" with the Confederate remnants' experiments. Something like that is intriguing. However, you could throw in a property for homonculi that they can't truly be killed unless they are killed with a certain type of weapon/energy (much like the cerebrates before the Overmind was killed).

On the topic of homonculi (but also off-topic), seeing that word in your campaign made me think of Fullmetal Alchemist. God, I miss that show. Did that influence you at all? "Homonculus" isn't a word you see very often, so I thought it might have.

[Laconius]

FMA was one of my primary influences for the villains utilizing homunculi.  Other sources for the term would be Diablo II LOD's "Homunculus - Heirophant Trophy" item and a summon-type unit belonging to Alchemists (lol deja vu?) from the MMORPG, Ragnarok Online.

[thebrowncloud]

Sorry to stray from VE, but is that you always being hidden? Everytime one of your posts appear you are never on the list of online ppl and there is always exactly 1 hidden user.

[Laconius]

Perhaps.  Having lurked at CC forums for nearly 7 years prior to my registration, I prefer to bask in the 'unseen' status.

[thebrowncloud]

Perhaps.  Having lurked at CC forums for nearly 7 years prior to my registration, I prefer to bask in the 'unseen' status.

Hehe, I've caught you now! 

[Meta]

I have to agree with Browncloud about the Mithras boss: I'd really want to see more of him or of his siblings, if there are any. Being such an unique boss, Mithras really caught my attention and his appearance is, IMO, one of the top moments in the campaign.

But please, no phoenix down. Use flashbacks, background info or something, but ressurrection usually doesn't work well. 

[Maglok]

"I am Zithras, you killed my father! Prepare to die!"