Warlords and Merchants Discussion
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:13 pm
Wizards and Mimes: A Critical Analysis
Welp, Diamondbacks are terrible. That isn't to say they're weak units, but considering they cost 150/150 and 4 (!!!!) supply, I was expecting them to perform a lot better than they did. All they really managed to accomplish was completely drain my gas income. I also remember at one point early in the game being maxed out, even though I only had a handful of Diamondbacks and Hellions. For reference... 4 supply is as much as a Thor.
My suggestion for Diamondbacks:
A) Lower their cost. 150/50 and 2 supply sounds fair to me. I would also get rid of the damage upgrade and let them have it for free.
OR
B) Improve their health and DPS significantly. If they can't be cheaper, they can at least be beefcakes.
If you're worried that the Attack-on-the-move ability will make them too powerful, it won't happen. Barring their campaign-only upgrades, Diamondbacks were designed specifically to have neither the range nor the movement speed to really exploit the ability.
As far as counters go, Diamondbacks are easy to beat. Dragoons outrange them, and I'm pretty sure they outrun them as well. It was actually rather sad; HighZealot's Dragoons were practically going one-to-one with my Diamondbacks, yet Dragoons are so much cheaper and easier to replace. Also, seeing how every game inevitably devolves into an air war, I have to wonder how hammered I was to even think of massing Diamondbacks.
Plus, with all the worry about Attack-on-the-move being too strong, it sure hasn't stopped you from slapping it onto the Combo/Elite units. In the event the ability does make a unit too powerful, that says more about the unit in question and not the ability itself. Some units are strong enough that they don't need any extra abilities or upgrades.
Then you have secret option C: Remove them from the game. To me, having every SC1/Campaign unit in the map needlessly clutters the interface, because many of them have such overlapping roles that everyone goes with the staple units anyway. Some of them are legit (e.g. Dragoons have practically replaced the Stalker), but most of them aren't.
Combo units. Not a bad idea, but I've yet to see a unit that truly constitutes a "combo", except for maybe the Bunker BC. Most units in the tree are exactly the same as the original unit, except they have a bunch of passive abilities and increased stats. When I think of a combo unit, I think of a Hellion that has the Goliath's missile attack for air, or a Corruptor with the Brood Lord's ground attack. I don't know whether you're trying to be conservative or not, but those are just some ideas that come to mind.
I also think it's kind of silly to have three tiers for each of these units. Big example here is the AA Hellion. It's the final iteration of the Combo Hellions, and I'm pretty sure it's the only one that ever sees use. Because these games last so long, the units leading up to it could only be used throughout relatively short time-span. Once the final tier is researched, those units won't ever be used again. That's bad, particularly when someone does sell them and then they become a permanently gray item on the menu. This goes in hand with what I said above about the SC1/Campaign units; if it's not being used, it's just cluttering the interface.
Then you have the Combo Marines, which never see use for a different reason. Their increased cost makes them rather prohibitive for what is supposed to be a basic unit. The regular Marine is easier for Warlords to make and easier for Merchants to sell. Simply put, the Marine is one of those units where quantity matters more than quality. Especially when quantity is more cost-effective.
The interface. Icons and the Next/Previous Page tabs are great additions, although there's a few other things you could do. Apparently there's upgrades to increase the starting energy of spellcaster units, and there's a display for its level on the merchant's menu, although it's really hard to notice. This, along with delivery times, should be made more visible to Warlords. If possible, I suggest placing it in the tooltips for the drop-down box, after the Merchant names. That way, I could open the box and see right away who has the quickest delivery or the highest starting energy. Starting energy in particular would be telling me that they sell spellcaster units, so I might look at that Merchant to see if they have Ravens or whatnot.
If that can't be done, I would simplify the text displayed at the top of the Merchant menus. Rather than whatever it is now, I would have the following:
Delivery (Standard) | Delivery (Special) | Starting Energy
...............42 s | ..............69 s | ...........666%
Something like that. As a Warlord, I shouldn't be forced to dig through clutter to find the information I want. It needs to be in plain sight. This change would also work out for Merchants, who can make a selling point on their delivery times or energy, or charge more for their units based on that. As of right now, I would never get the energy upgrades as a Merchant, because no Warlord would even notice that I've researched them.
INCOHERENT RANT COMPLETE
EDIT: Actually, one more thing. There really ought to be some organization for the units and upgrades on sale. Every time I look at Vet's menu, my head explodes. Protoss Ground Weapons could be on one page, and Protoss Ground Armor could be on another page, and AUUGUGHUGUHGHGFUGRGUTHG. I think having upgrades arranged by their max level would be best, since those would be the most frequently purchased, and they're also purchased in groups.
Welp, Diamondbacks are terrible. That isn't to say they're weak units, but considering they cost 150/150 and 4 (!!!!) supply, I was expecting them to perform a lot better than they did. All they really managed to accomplish was completely drain my gas income. I also remember at one point early in the game being maxed out, even though I only had a handful of Diamondbacks and Hellions. For reference... 4 supply is as much as a Thor.
My suggestion for Diamondbacks:
A) Lower their cost. 150/50 and 2 supply sounds fair to me. I would also get rid of the damage upgrade and let them have it for free.
OR
B) Improve their health and DPS significantly. If they can't be cheaper, they can at least be beefcakes.
If you're worried that the Attack-on-the-move ability will make them too powerful, it won't happen. Barring their campaign-only upgrades, Diamondbacks were designed specifically to have neither the range nor the movement speed to really exploit the ability.
As far as counters go, Diamondbacks are easy to beat. Dragoons outrange them, and I'm pretty sure they outrun them as well. It was actually rather sad; HighZealot's Dragoons were practically going one-to-one with my Diamondbacks, yet Dragoons are so much cheaper and easier to replace. Also, seeing how every game inevitably devolves into an air war, I have to wonder how hammered I was to even think of massing Diamondbacks.
Plus, with all the worry about Attack-on-the-move being too strong, it sure hasn't stopped you from slapping it onto the Combo/Elite units. In the event the ability does make a unit too powerful, that says more about the unit in question and not the ability itself. Some units are strong enough that they don't need any extra abilities or upgrades.
Then you have secret option C: Remove them from the game. To me, having every SC1/Campaign unit in the map needlessly clutters the interface, because many of them have such overlapping roles that everyone goes with the staple units anyway. Some of them are legit (e.g. Dragoons have practically replaced the Stalker), but most of them aren't.
Combo units. Not a bad idea, but I've yet to see a unit that truly constitutes a "combo", except for maybe the Bunker BC. Most units in the tree are exactly the same as the original unit, except they have a bunch of passive abilities and increased stats. When I think of a combo unit, I think of a Hellion that has the Goliath's missile attack for air, or a Corruptor with the Brood Lord's ground attack. I don't know whether you're trying to be conservative or not, but those are just some ideas that come to mind.
I also think it's kind of silly to have three tiers for each of these units. Big example here is the AA Hellion. It's the final iteration of the Combo Hellions, and I'm pretty sure it's the only one that ever sees use. Because these games last so long, the units leading up to it could only be used throughout relatively short time-span. Once the final tier is researched, those units won't ever be used again. That's bad, particularly when someone does sell them and then they become a permanently gray item on the menu. This goes in hand with what I said above about the SC1/Campaign units; if it's not being used, it's just cluttering the interface.
Then you have the Combo Marines, which never see use for a different reason. Their increased cost makes them rather prohibitive for what is supposed to be a basic unit. The regular Marine is easier for Warlords to make and easier for Merchants to sell. Simply put, the Marine is one of those units where quantity matters more than quality. Especially when quantity is more cost-effective.
The interface. Icons and the Next/Previous Page tabs are great additions, although there's a few other things you could do. Apparently there's upgrades to increase the starting energy of spellcaster units, and there's a display for its level on the merchant's menu, although it's really hard to notice. This, along with delivery times, should be made more visible to Warlords. If possible, I suggest placing it in the tooltips for the drop-down box, after the Merchant names. That way, I could open the box and see right away who has the quickest delivery or the highest starting energy. Starting energy in particular would be telling me that they sell spellcaster units, so I might look at that Merchant to see if they have Ravens or whatnot.
If that can't be done, I would simplify the text displayed at the top of the Merchant menus. Rather than whatever it is now, I would have the following:
Delivery (Standard) | Delivery (Special) | Starting Energy
...............42 s | ..............69 s | ...........666%
Something like that. As a Warlord, I shouldn't be forced to dig through clutter to find the information I want. It needs to be in plain sight. This change would also work out for Merchants, who can make a selling point on their delivery times or energy, or charge more for their units based on that. As of right now, I would never get the energy upgrades as a Merchant, because no Warlord would even notice that I've researched them.
INCOHERENT RANT COMPLETE
EDIT: Actually, one more thing. There really ought to be some organization for the units and upgrades on sale. Every time I look at Vet's menu, my head explodes. Protoss Ground Weapons could be on one page, and Protoss Ground Armor could be on another page, and AUUGUGHUGUHGHGFUGRGUTHG. I think having upgrades arranged by their max level would be best, since those would be the most frequently purchased, and they're also purchased in groups.