You're saying that nearly an entire community is unwilling to make campaigns because WorldEdit is "too hard to learn"?Mucky wrote:You're saying that nearly an entire community is unwilling to make campaigns because WorldEdit is "too hard to learn"?JimmyJames wrote: But to point at another paragraph in my topic post, does anyone agree that another reason could be the ease and learning curve of the Campaign Editor itself. There is the architect and his tools. If he gets new tools and they are hard to figure out, chances are the person would go back to using his older tools or stop his work altogether. This might also run into why people in the Starcraft community are more successfully productive than the Warcraft community.
Do you remember when you learned StarEdit? Would you say it was a cakewalk? If so, you're probably lying. One does not open up a map editor and expect to learn all of its intricacies overnight. It takes time. WorldEdit certainly takes more time to learn than StarEdit, but that's because it has more things to learn than StarEdit. If you were to keep a list of what WorldEdit can do next to list of what StarEdit can do, you'd see that StarEdit has next to nothing, and in my perspective, that's nothing but a gift. But according to what you say, newer and better tools works out to be a disadvantage for the mapmaker because he's too used to his old tools. This is utterly false. If anything, it's your own emotional laziness.
Imagine you're a carpenter. You're sawing a log. Your saw has become quite dull, to the point where you need to put force in your movements. A co-worker suggests to you that you sharpen the blade, or get a newer one. You reply to him "I would, but I'm too busy sawing this log!" Not really related to learning an editor, but the concept of emotional laziness still applies. If you don't want to sharpen the blade, you are free to spend 5 minutes doing a 2 minute job. And if don't want to explore what WorldEdit has to offer, you are free to jump through hoops to get something simple done in StarEdit.
I'm not even arguing that it's worth your time to make a campaign using WorldEdit. I'm just saying that to reject a newer generation editor simply because it has more stuff in it is foolish. Implying that an entire community has done this is even more foolish.
I guess that's one way of phrasing what I said but again, I think of it as one of the three contributing factors why the Warcraft 3 community has failed to be proliferate.
2: "Another reason" was people and their 'feature creep' ... getting too ambitious.
3: "Another reason" was the flexibility of the Warcraft 3 story and how many people cannot connect with the base story given for the campaigns and the unit histories.
Do you remember when you learned StarEdit? Would you say it was a cakewalk? If so, you're probably lying... If you were to keep a list of what WorldEdit can do next to list of what StarEdit can do, you'd see that StarEdit has next to nothing, and in my perspective, that's nothing but a gift. But according to what you say, newer and better tools works out to be a disadvantage for the mapmaker because he's too used to his old tools. This is utterly false. If anything, it's your own emotional laziness.
Perhaps much of the WC3 community also has emotional laziness, then? I guess it's that just point that I wanted to get across. Everybody has their amounts of dedication and I have little and not enough to complete a map or campaign but what I did notice was that StarEdit paled in comparison to WorldEdit, as you said as I said in the topic post. I was able to work with StarEdit and work on and on repeatedly testing my own maps and fishing out the bugs but once it came to WorldEdit, I was intimidated too much to even go into testing something out. I tried searching through other people's maps only to be confused even more because I didn't know how to approach it or maybe I was searching the wrong maps.
Would you agree this would've happened to a lot of people that might have tried to make a campaign? In addition, it's tradition (SC) vs. modern (WC3) methods... so many new features to work with. There are some people who choose to accept change and others who aren't - like a generation willing to adapt to technology and others who just are willing to let others help them out. This is one of the three factors that knock out potential campaign makers.
This brings me to the subject I wanted people to discuss in here overall. Has the Campaign Standards of Today risen to a point where many people are unable to make complete a campaign? Blasphemy? Then... What are the Campaign Standards of Today? How much do people expect to get out from a campaign? How much do campaign makers think people expect to get out from a campaign? (Real amount vs. estimated amount) and what does this mean for the campaign community? Has the release of Starcraft, Warcraft or any other game increased the bar? More/less collaborations with others? More/less heaps of days or weeks or months to complete a full project? What is the least a campaign maker can get away with to have his/her campaign considered acceptable? Continue this topic in any way you want.