New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

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Eredalis
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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Eredalis » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:12 pm

Don't change too much! Only the expansions need a slightly better allocation. It should be valueable for the player to conquer that two spots. (left the yellow exe with all the spore colonies; right the exe with these white supply depots)

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Andrea Rosa » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:56 pm

Ok, the revised version is available. Both expansions now contain 5 mineral units. Please let me know if, in your opinion, the difficulty is more manageable, and thanks again for supporting my projects.

Cheers!

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Eredalis » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:42 am

The thing is, and I've totally forgotten to write this, if a average player and a good player report you the same problem from two different points of view, then you as designer should choose the golden mean in most cases. But I do not want to lecture you, since you are not (like I already said) a beginner, your amazing portfolio speaks for itself. Also, and I already told you that before, too, your intuition for the Starcraft storyline and instinct for creating your perception into a own Starcraft map (campaign) is pretty unique.

In other words, to create an outstanding good campaign only StarEdit is needed. :plz:

So, supporting your excellent Starcraft projects is a pleasure. <3
Please continue your amazing work by creating now your recently announced Protoss campaign.
Last edited by Eredalis on Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Andrea Rosa » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:39 am

Eredalis wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:42 am
The thing is, and I've totally forgotten to write this, if a average player and a good player report you the same problem from two different points of view, then you as designer should choose the golden mean in most cases.

Well said. I've always taken into great consideration users' feedback and suggestions, not only concerning StarCraft: one of my oldest projects, a map pack for Quake II, has been revised several times over a time frame of 10 years (2007-2017) thanks to kind people who played it and gave me useful hints for improving it, and some of them have also become good friends of mine on social media.

Eredalis wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:42 am
In other words, to create an outstanding good campaign only StarEdit is needed. :plz:

I couldn't agree more, mate. Some people have repeatedly criticized me for not using ScmDraft 2, to the point of totally boycotting my campaigns for the simple fact of not being made with it, but I don't care. Similarly, I don't care if Blizzard has discontinued StarEdit: as long as the maps work in the game, I'm fine. This does not mean that I will never use ScmDraft 2 for some kind of prejudice, it will depend on what I want to achieve. For the time being, I prefer to work with an editor that I'm accustomed with.

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by chris » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:14 am

Andrea Rosa wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:39 am
Some people have repeatedly criticized me for not using ScmDraft 2, to the point of totally boycotting my campaigns for the simple fact of not being made with it.
I'm pretty sure Pr0nogo is only 1 person. He has a habit of commenting on things in a campaign that are irrelevant when he gives a review. In the case of your work he's unable to appreciate that you are designing your campaigns around the limitations of staredit rather than seeing them as a obstacle that must be overcome with mods. He's also literally unable to be positive about anything ever and pans campaigns no matter how much effort the creator puts into their work. His negative attitude in his "info" section of his archive as well as comments from people on reddit about the desire for a QA'd list of custom campaigns is what motivated me to begin making my spreadsheet in the first place.

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Andrea Rosa » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:28 pm

chris wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:14 am
I'm pretty sure Pr0nogo is only 1 person. He has a habit of commenting on things in a campaign that are irrelevant when he gives a review. In the case of your work he's unable to appreciate that you are designing your campaigns around the limitations of staredit rather than seeing them as a obstacle that must be overcome with mods. He's also literally unable to be positive about anything ever and pans campaigns no matter how much effort the creator puts into their work. His negative attitude in his "info" section of his archive as well as comments from people on reddit about the desire for a QA'd list of custom campaigns is what motivated me to begin making my spreadsheet in the first place.

LOL what a bizarre guy. At first I thought he was trying to be helpful by giving constructive feedback, but then I gradually changed my mind. In his opinion, based on a series of comments on YouTube, The Call of Nargil, Dark Stalkers and Prodigal Son should have been merged into a single map (don't ask me how I was supposed to do it). Quoting his words, this "would have prevented the other missions from feeling kneecapped, as they ended just as starcraft's core gameplay began taking shape". I'm still wondering what he meant by that. Then, while talking about the unusual presence of an Infested Terran in Dark Stalkers, he said "if you need to make concessions in your gameplay because of your story, then your story isn't cut out for an interactive medium" (again, what does that mean? Given that the story is usually laid out before the design process begins, then it's quite natural that a scenario adapts itself to the story, and not the other way around). At that point I started to suspect that he was simply trolling me, so I decided to ignore his strange lucubrations.

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by chris » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:40 am

He is actually trying to give constructive feedback, the problem is that he greatly overdoes it. The feedbacks he gives for campaigns is akin to someone making a custom super mario world campaign and then getting feedback saying how to make it a super mario 64 campaign instead. Like I said earlier, he is unable to grasp the concept of designing something around limitations rather than seeing them as a detriment that must be eliminated.

Edit: The infested terran was probably the most original thing in the campaign, especially as it lampshades various past campaigns that had hydralisks inexplicably able to use computer terminals. Your campaign would have gotten lower points on originality and gameplay design without it :P

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Andrea Rosa » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:45 am

chris wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:40 am
The feedbacks he gives for campaigns is akin to someone making a custom super mario world campaign and then getting feedback saying how to make it a super mario 64 campaign instead.

Brilliant metaphor... as a seasoned retro gamer who still takes great joy in playing 80s and 90s classics, I greatly appreciate it.

chris wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:40 am
The infested terran was probably the most original thing in the campaign, especially as it lampshades various past campaigns that had hydralisks inexplicably able to use computer terminals. Your campaign would have gotten lower points on originality and gameplay design without it :P

Now that I think about it, it all started from the infested guy. The sub-plot of Missions 2, 3 and 4 was the seminal idea from which the whole campaign originated. Trivia: the name "Gargaroth" is a tribute to The Amazing World of Gumball, one of my favorite animated series.

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Eredalis » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:11 am

Mission 5 done!
And what a ride it was... :lol:

At first, I was going to lose, because they decided to reschedule their three-way-dance into my house.
But then, after 30 minutes of the well-known hostile harassment, I've put everything on the line and crushed both Science Facilities. This maneuver was so friggin' close, but I did it... ;D

From that moment on, the pressure was throttled and I could finally start to strike back.
All minerals are just perfect now, it's not too much and not too few, the overall balance is ensured.

Shortly after the destruction of the Science Labs, the orange Zerg wiped the poor white Terran.
The orange brood still stays dangerous, though. They tried to fuck me by bringing 7 Ultralisks to my main base. Fortunately, all my Guardians had their hourly meeting right over the Hive at that moment. :raspberry:

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Re: New StarCraft campaign: Voices of the Swarm

Post by Andrea Rosa » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Well done! While it is possible to win by waging a three-way war, destroying the Science Facilities as quickly as possible is the best way to handle this mission. Indeed, one should get rid of them as soon as Guardians are available, not just for eliminating the Terrans, but also for distracting the Zerg for a while. I would have liked to make the player's units converge toward the warp point at the end, similarly to what happens in the final mission of the Protoss campaign of Brood War, but then I realized that some players may have survived the final confrontation with the Battlecruisers with just a handful of Mutalisks and Scourges, and seeing five or six flyers trying to represent the warp of the Swarm toward Aiur would have been silly, so I scrapped the idea.

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