The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Who do you think was/is more badass?

The Overmind
11
65%
Kerrigan
6
35%
 
Total votes: 17


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The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby SidKaldor » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:17 pm

After reading Magic's SC storyline commentary and reminscing over the original and BW campaigns, I came to a profound conclusion.

Kerrigan sucks.

Seriously now :D, IMHO, the Overmind was such an awesome character. From down to his voice, to his style of talking, the Overmind is just so much more of a menacing and awesome character. I mean, Kerrigan isn't anything to sneeze at, but IMO she makes the zerg seem too human. Her goals are power and killing the people who betrayed her, whereas the Overmind had a more cosmic plan, the perfection of the zerg and assimilation of all life. Kerrigan is a blood thirsty, ruthless villain no doubt, but the Overmind to me is so much more badass because HES NOT HUMAN, the Overmind in a sense, is almost like a force of nature, something larger beyond our scope of understanding, which makes him seem much more than kerrigan. (Did anyone else think it was blasphemy to have the overmind controlled by the UED? Or even try to bring it back in brood wars? Seemed just like another convenient way to make the zerg player in episode 6 to fight zerg+UED)

BTW, one part of the story which still doesn't make sense is why the hell the overmind would want to put itself on Aiur, that move to me looked like the designers way of making it "within the story" possible for the heroes to kill the overmind without traveling all the way to Zerus. Also his victory speech at the end of episode II seems to signify that they've won and the assimilation of the protoss was beginning, yet as Magic stated in the commentary, we don't see and infested protoss nor any zerg/protoss hybrids (methinks the designers got lazy), and if the whole point of assimilating the terran/kerrigan was to assimilate psionic potential into the zerg, why dont we see kerrigan on aiur, or any other zerg with the newly assimilated psionic potential? I feel that there are all these vast potentials which just got rushed over and ignored in order to make way for the episode three storyline. I mean, its like whenever you have an awesome character (Tassadar, the overmind, zasz, stukov, etc.), they have to be killed off (tho raynor seems to be the exception).

Another note, when I first beat the last level "Eye of the Storm", I had 12 battlecruisers, 12 carriers, and a whole bunch of tanks and dragoons (ok, I like those immature strategies, so sue me :P), and contrary to what tassadar said, I had NOT sustained severe damage. Do you think there was any other reason why Tassadar had to die other than good story telling? And possibly because the Brood Wars storyline could not have occured if a badass character like tassadar was around? And shouldn't he be a grey templar instead of a high templar having studied with zeratul? Urgh......
Last edited by SidKaldor on Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Lavarinth » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:49 pm

I agree the Overmind is a more unique being compared the Kerrigan. Aside that, I believe the reason Tassadar crashed into the Overmind was to harness his power in relations to the mechanisms in the Carrier, if I recall, and it would demolish the Overmind once and for all, otherwise- Much like the Cerebrate, it would sustain no damage. I may be wrong on this, but there was a purpose to his action.
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby SidKaldor » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:27 pm

Hey Lavarinth,

I agree with you, harnessing the power in his carrier makes sense to demolish the overmind once and for all, but couldn't they have just done the same thing by using zeratul and the dark templar (much like in the BW campaign where zeratul kills the new overmind) and avoid the kamikazae move?

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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Lavarinth » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:48 am

I don't recall, but was Zeratul even around?
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby omega20 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:09 am

Lavarinth wrote:I don't recall, but was Zeratul even around?

The Dark Templar killed the (second) Overmind. Zeratul came moments after and destroyed the Overmind cocoon before discussing Kerrigan about the captive Matriarch.

SidKaldor wrote:Hey Lavarinth,

I agree with you, harnessing the power in his carrier makes sense to demolish the overmind once and for all, but couldn't they have just done the same thing by using zeratul and the dark templar (much like in the BW campaign where zeratul kills the new overmind) and avoid the kamikazae move?

Perhaps it was because the first Overmind was far more powerful than the second one. If I recall correctly, the second Overmind was only a 'puppet' used by Daggoth, and after the UED, to control the Swarms (Just like the old Overmind used the Cerebrates). I doubt if it was even a conscious creature.
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Rocco » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:11 pm

Zeratul was a controllable unit in the last mission where Tassadar crashed into the Overmind so it would've been very possible to do.
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Thalraxal » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:23 pm

I think my stance is pretty clear.  The Overmind was awesome.

I find it weird that the Overmind didn't have a better plan in case of its own demise.  Despite the whole "eternal will of the Swarm" thing, it must have known the risks it was taking when it incarnated itself on Auir.  The Overmind obviously thought highly of the Protoss, and if anything could kill it, it would be them.  Heck, when it arrived at Auir, The Overmind knew that the Protoss could kill its Cerebrates, he must have known they could kill him too.

As for the UED controlling the Second Overmind... We've seen Cerebrates controlled by Terran telepaths in the Enslaver campaigns, so it's not too far fetched that it could be possible to control an Overmind.  I doubt that the UED could have pulled it off if their target had been the Original Overmind though.  We know the the Second Overmind was much weaker than the Original Overmind was (it couldn't control some of the more powerful agents of the Swarm, like Kerrigan, and the Player Cerebrate).  The Second Overmind was less than a year old at the time, might have just been beaten into submission by the Protoss while they were looking for the Khalis Crystal, and it was busy dealing with the effects of the Psi Disruptor.  Poor thing was under a lot of stress at the time. :(

I'm pretty sure that if Kerrigan and Zeratul hadn't killed the Second Overmind, it would have eventually grown powerful enough to break free of the UED's control and killed them all.

There's also a part of me that wants to believe, even though I'm pretty sure it's wrong, that Duran is really the Original Overmind who reincarnated himself as an Infested Terran.

@omega20: The puppet Overmind thing was in Vision of the Future, I don't think it's cannon unless it was covered in one of the novels.  All we know about the Second Overmind's creation is that a group of Cerebrates merged to form it at Daggoth's command.  We don't know which ones, or even if Daggoth was one of the ones that merged.  In all probability, it likely contained all the Cerebrates of the Command Wing (Daggoth, Gorn and Nargil), but I'd rather believe that somewhere, out there, Daggoth is plotting his revenge.

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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby omega20 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:40 pm

Thalraxal wrote:@omega20: The puppet Overmind thing was in Vision of the Future, I don't think it's cannon unless it was covered in one of the novels.  All we know about the Second Overmind's creation is that a group of Cerebrates merged to form it at Daggoth's command.  We don't know which ones, or even if Daggoth was one of the ones that merged.  In all probability, it likely contained all the Cerebrates of the Command Wing (Daggoth, Gorn and Nargil), but I'd rather believe that somewhere, out there, Daggoth is plotting his revenge.

Actually, in the BW Protoss campaign Kerrigan explains that Daggoth ordered the merging of several Cerebrates in order to create a new Overmind. I think that he couldn't be foolish enough to allow himself to merge into the Overmind (he was the more powerful of the Cerebrates). So, if he didn't merge, and taking into account that the Overmind was too weak at the time it existed, I suppose it was Daggoth who controlled him. (P.S. Gorn couldn't merge into the Overmind neither. He was killed by Zeratul on Aiur. ;)) I'd like too to believe that Daggoth is still living. The Overmind and the Cerebrates are were awesome. However, Blizzard killed them all. :'(
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Sodon » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:59 pm

I'm interested in the notion that Kerrigan is in many ways detrimental to the Zerg. I would even suggest that she is more human than not and brings with that aspect all of her human sensibilities. The Overmind was, in many ways, a creature pure of form whose purpose was evolution, i.e. life.

It's interesting that I found this thread after brainstorming about the relationship between the three races last night in the shower. You know what they say about great minds!
Last edited by Sodon on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Legion » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:21 pm

Sodon wrote:I'm interested in the notion that Kerrigan is in many ways detrimental to the Zerg. I would even suggest that she is more human than not and brings with that aspect all of her human sensibilities. The Overmind was, in many ways, a creature pure of form whose purpose was evolution, i.e. life.

It's interesting that I found this thread after brainstorming about the relationship between the three races last night in the shower. You know what they say about great minds!


They brainstorm about videogame lore while cleaning themselves? :D

Anyway, yes, the Overmind was nature -- pure, merciless and relentless. But weaker than its natural enemies, i.e. technologically more advanced creatures (protoss). It is neither intelligent nor unintelligent. It just is. Has no plans, only directives.

I always thought the Queen Bitch character got really old really fast.

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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Sodon » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:36 pm

I wouldn't argue that it's weaker than the protoss. I think the protoss just exploited the fact that the Xel'Naga created them both. Obviously individual zerg are weak, but that's not really important, since the Swarm is the individual. A zergling is nothing.
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Church » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:50 pm

Sodon wrote:I wouldn't argue that it's weaker than the protoss. I think the protoss just exploited the fact that the Xel'Naga created them both. Obviously individual zerg are weak, but that's not really important, since the Swarm is the individual. A zergling is nothing.

That was stated better than I could state it.
You must be good at stating things. ;)
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Sodon » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:26 pm

Actually, you are probably right. The Overmind and the Zerg were weaker. This is why the zerg sought out the Terrans.

(Distance is so overlooked in StarCraft that it's easily confusing. The Zerg originated near our galaxy's core, which is many hundreds of thousands of light years away from the Outer Rim, which would include the Koprulu sector and the "fringe world" of Auir. Even if the humans and protoss lived at the edge of the galaxy, though, they are easily hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of light years apart. Stars are rarely much closer together than that. Which is all to say: people in StarCraft travel very fast. But it's also to say that the Koprulu Sector had to have been a detour. The Zerg went there very purposefully.)

Kerrigan was thus the missing link, meant to meld the two races into a force powerful enough to face the protoss, and effectively skip the arduous process of assimilating the entire human race. The latent psychic abilities of the humans is probably key here.

Curious. I'd like to explore the possibility that in assimilating Kerrigan, the Overmind overstepped. Rather than consume humanity, it has become consumed by it. Are the zerg now more human than not?
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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Legion » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:36 am

Sodon wrote:Actually, you are probably right. The Overmind and the Zerg were weaker. This is why the zerg sought out the Terrans.

(Distance is so overlooked in StarCraft that it's easily confusing. The Zerg originated near our galaxy's core, which is many hundreds of thousands of light years away from the Outer Rim, which would include the Koprulu sector and the "fringe world" of Auir. Even if the humans and protoss lived at the edge of the galaxy, though, they are easily hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of light years apart. Stars are rarely much closer together than that. Which is all to say: people in StarCraft travel very fast. But it's also to say that the Koprulu Sector had to have been a detour. The Zerg went there very purposefully.)

Kerrigan was thus the missing link, meant to meld the two races into a force powerful enough to face the protoss, and effectively skip the arduous process of assimilating the entire human race. The latent psychic abilities of the humans is probably key here.

Curious. I'd like to explore the possibility that in assimilating Kerrigan, the Overmind overstepped. Rather than consume humanity, it has become consumed by it. Are the zerg now more human than not?


More human than not -- I think that's partly true. Zerg creatures are still killer instinct automatons. Kerrigan made them do 'human'-like things. Raiding colonies for resources, killing specific targets. The Swarm sans Kerrigan would never go at such lengths without consuming the entire planet, and thereby effectively expanding their empire. If Kerrigan were to die, the Swarm would evolve again (I actually have a story idea for something like that lying around) and restore their former hierarchy of power.

If anything, the zerg have gained human qualities (through Kerrigan): greed and whimsicality.

No more decisions based on calculations (i.e. nature's way), but decisions based on one mind's judgment. If Kerrigan's leadership remains intact, the Swarm will fall.

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Re: The Overmind VS Kerrigan

Postby Whiplash! » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:32 pm

BadManners! wrote:
Sodon wrote:Actually, you are probably right. The Overmind and the Zerg were weaker. This is why the zerg sought out the Terrans.

(Distance is so overlooked in StarCraft that it's easily confusing. The Zerg originated near our galaxy's core, which is many hundreds of thousands of light years away from the Outer Rim, which would include the Koprulu sector and the "fringe world" of Auir. Even if the humans and protoss lived at the edge of the galaxy, though, they are easily hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of light years apart. Stars are rarely much closer together than that. Which is all to say: people in StarCraft travel very fast. But it's also to say that the Koprulu Sector had to have been a detour. The Zerg went there very purposefully.)

Kerrigan was thus the missing link, meant to meld the two races into a force powerful enough to face the protoss, and effectively skip the arduous process of assimilating the entire human race. The latent psychic abilities of the humans is probably key here.

Curious. I'd like to explore the possibility that in assimilating Kerrigan, the Overmind overstepped. Rather than consume humanity, it has become consumed by it. Are the zerg now more human than not?


More human than not -- I think that's partly true. Zerg creatures are still killer instinct automatons. Kerrigan made them do 'human'-like things. Raiding colonies for resources, killing specific targets. The Swarm sans Kerrigan would never go at such lengths without consuming the entire planet, and thereby effectively expanding their empire. If Kerrigan were to die, the Swarm would evolve again (I actually have a story idea for something like that lying around) and restore their former hierarchy of power.

If anything, the zerg have gained human qualities (through Kerrigan): greed and whimsicality.

No more decisions based on calculations (i.e. nature's way), but decisions based on one mind's judgment. If Kerrigan's leadership remains intact, the Swarm will fall.


I think its the other way around: if Kerrigan dies then the swarm will fall apart. The cerebrates are dead and unless the zerg find a way to grow cerebrates like other buildings then they would just go rampant and eventually kill their selves off or slowly revert to their original forms
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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