General questions regarding the LOTC projects

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IskatuMesk
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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Actually, the portrait smk format required a very specific tool - specifically the old rad tools - to do anything with. Back then it was rather easy to find, not sure about now. Animations aren't an issue, you do that in the 3d application. Which application you used didn't necessarily matter, so long as the final results were in the proper palette for starcraft. We used paint shop pro for that back then, and I would still use it today if I had to, because nothing else handles palettes nearly as effectively. Unfortunately most newer graphics software usually makes things more difficult.
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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby CowardI » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:18 pm

IskatuMesk wrote:Actually, the portrait smk format required a very specific tool - specifically the old rad tools - to do anything with. Back then it was rather easy to find, not sure about now. Animations aren't an issue, you do that in the 3d application. Which application you used didn't necessarily matter, so long as the final results were in the proper palette for starcraft. We used paint shop pro for that back then, and I would still use it today if I had to, because nothing else handles palettes nearly as effectively. Unfortunately most newer graphics software usually makes things more difficult.


Thanks for your reply. Cool to know. :)

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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby CowardI » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:05 pm

Actually, I have a few more questions for you, Oracle. ^^

1. During the development of LOTC for SC2 did you ever think: "F*** it" and instead just remake LOTC and release Episode 3 on SC1 with more custom units & portraits, improved sounds and change in level design based on the feedback? I heard that there was a sprite and unit limit in SC1 that was holding you back, that true? Was there no way to modify that limit?

2. As I said earlier in this thread:
"And now... I'm done with episode 21, The Oracle is loose, I go back to this site and read there is supposed to be another cinematic somewhere (no, not the one you're supposed to play after mission 18. Source: http://www.campaigncreations.org/starcr ... rkness/faq) that should give some kind of conclusion."
Whatever happened to that cinematic?
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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby The Oracle » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:16 pm

CowardI wrote:Actually, I have a few more questions for you, Oracle. ^^

1. During the development of LOTC for SC2 did you ever think: "F*** it" and instead just remake LOTC and release Episode 3 on SC1 with more custom units & portraits, improved sounds and change in level design based on the feedback? I heard that there was a sprite and unit limit in SC1, was that holding you back, that true? Was there no way to modify that limit?


2. As I said earlier in this thread:
"And now... I'm done with episode 21, The Oracle is loose, I go back to this site and read there is supposed to be another cinematic somewhere (no, not the one you're supposed to play after mission 18. Source: http://www.campaigncreations.org/starcr ... rkness/faq) that should give some kind of conclusion."
Whatever happened to that cinematic?


**SC 1 is a great game but is old news. And truly, the editor for SC / BW, while powerful, pales in comparison to what can be done for SC 2. To really tell the story of LotC the way it's meant to be, the SC 2 editor is required.

**As for the cinematic, There was a guy that used to be part of Auspex Studios when it was around. Waylon Wynn if I remember right. He was doing the cinematic for me but disappeared after awhile. So the cinematic fell into the ether with him.
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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby CowardI » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:37 pm

Yeah, SC1 is old news. Had LOTC been released on SC / BW now it would only attract veteran players maybe? Still, it could be a contingency plan if SC 2 editor is not cooperative.

Sad to hear about the cinematic, maybe we will see a remake of that. :)

While on the topic of SC / BW and its editor does anyone know if there was a way to remove the sprite limit or unit limit? Was it also possible to add more units? The only SC mods I ever played had only "reskins" of the currently existing units, no new units. Do you have a opinion on this, IskatuMesk?

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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:46 pm

DiscipleofAdun made a limit expander for me for Armageddon Onslaught. It raised the sprite and weapon limits and such dramatically, it's the only reason that project could exist.

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You can't "add" units in the technical sense. The data files are all completely hardcoded in how many entries they can have. You can, however, completely change many units and a lot of unused stuff.

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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby CowardI » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:36 am

IskatuMesk wrote:DiscipleofAdun made a limit expander for me for Armageddon Onslaught. It raised the sprite and weapon limits and such dramatically, it's the only reason that project could exist.


Sorry for my absence.

And holy shit. That is insane! :D Looks amazing.

IskatuMesk wrote:You can't "add" units in the technical sense. The data files are all completely hardcoded in how many entries they can have. You can, however, completely change many units and a lot of unused stuff.


Ok. And there is no way to work around that? To me it seams like Starcraft is not the best game for modders. At least compared to other games like: Dawn of war, Half Life, Total War, etc.

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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:56 pm

Starcraft is the kind of game that is considered "the worst" for modders. Its main advantage is that it is an older game and had a lot of people with the right skills interested in making content for it. Those other games all have their own limits (having worked with Dawn of Skirmish I came to understand that game's a bit, but not enough for a real overview). Most of sc's limitations are really unexpected and stupid, while some like the data entry limit are just silly. There are ways around any and all limitations, but it comes down to time in reverse engineering, and everyone who tried to get past it deemed it not worth their time.
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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby CowardI » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:57 pm

IskatuMesk wrote:Starcraft is the kind of game that is considered "the worst" for modders. Its main advantage is that it is an older game and had a lot of people with the right skills interested in making content for it. Those other games all have their own limits (having worked with Dawn of Skirmish I came to understand that game's a bit, but not enough for a real overview). Most of sc's limitations are really unexpected and stupid, while some like the data entry limit are just silly. There are ways around any and all limitations, but it comes down to time in reverse engineering, and everyone who tried to get past it deemed it not worth their time.


I understand. Looks like blizzard was lucky with their community.

Where these limitations done intentonal at the time? Or is it just an old game?

You worked on Dawn of Skirmish? :D Awsome. That mod was perfect. Made that game 100 times better. It was night and day. All credtis to you, sir.

But those damn Necrons. :P Jesus christ. They where a challange. Remeber me and a buddy played the 2vs2 map "Into the Breach". Us against Necrons. That was one of our best gaming experience ever.

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Re: General questions regarding the LOTC projects

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:33 pm

Brood War is basically a hack of warcraft 2. Most of the limitations undoubtedly come from incompetence/inexperience at the time (which is mostly what their related articles, and articles about their following games e.g. diablo 2, say as well).

For Dawn of Skirmish I mostly did QA and testing but I also wrote a bunch of insane scripts for personal use. Stuff like basilisk rushing. It was hilariously effective.
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