Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Hercanic » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:12 pm

Archangel wrote:People have written entire books because nobody wants to pay $17.95 for a 5000 word essay. And unless you're telling me you are Joseph Campbell, nobody's going to your book. So if you can't deliver the cliff notes of The Hero with a Thousand Faces without using every word in the entire manuscript, you have a problem.

Ugh. I never said I can't. I said I didn't want to. I listed why, was I not clear enough? I even threw you a freakin' bone. This was your dirt mound to begin with, pardon me for not wanting to play. My only reason for responding was to make it clear that you weren't actually replying to what I had wrote.
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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:47 pm

The death of the industry in its current state wouldn't be the death of video games even if it was a colossal collapse of biblical proportions - I hope I wasn't trying to convey that outcome, because I didn't mean to. I'm talking about the death of the industry's current state, e.g. investor/middleware driven with brandname meaning more than content. This industry will die, it's only a matter of time before it becomes unsustainable and needs to change. Steam is one of the reasons those parts of the industry are dying, by cutting out the need for publishers. The rest of the lard just needs to rot off, so to speak. EA and co are trying to copy paste steam but it isn't working, and they keep crawling back.

An industry crash right now would be a great, positive thing, something we should be hoping for.

/edit

Also, as a mapper/modder, I would like to make a statement.

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Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Lavarinth » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:56 am

Somebody said video games are on the rise?

http://www.joystiq.com/tag/bankruptcy/

While businesses come and go, such studio shut downs have not occurred so drastically in quantity as the past few years compared to, well, the lifetime of video games. This is a major shake up of a time for the video game industry, and not even the big dogs are safe as evident by Atari and THQ this year, and that's only full bankruptcies, not even considering layoffs and location shutdowns.
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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Mr. » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:15 pm

I feel like these are relevant to this conversation:

On the subject of bullshit AAA publisher shenanigans:
Dead Space 3 has microtransactions because mobile gamers

Not much to actually say on that one, just throwing out some more anecdotal evidence about EA being awful.



On the subject of bad video game writing:

Apparently Far Cry 3 is a truly brilliant masterpiece of mega subtle mind-blowing writing. At least, according to the writer. But for some reason nobody else understood the writer's extra-nuanced references to Alice in Wonderland that he made by flashing quotes from Alice in Wonderland on the screen for 40 unskippable seconds at many points during the game.

You know what, though, I liked Far Cry 3. It was a very fun game, in spite of the cassowary genocide. When I was playing it, I actually didn't even think that the writing was that bad. It wasn't amazing, but it at least had some more ambition than "Here's a gun, here are the bad guys," and wasn't completely offensive. Essentially, the writing was "good enough for a video game." Which I guess is the entire problem that video game writing has.

But then I stumble across this little discussion being had between the lead writer of Far Cry 3 and, well... I guess anyone who would listen. He's claiming that Far Cry 3 is misunderstood, because the internet was not set ablaze with people throwing praise on his metaphors. Due to reading his comments, I've reconsidered the plot of Far Cry 3, taking into consideration what the writer was trying to do. Now I think that it's kinda terrible.

I'm left wondering what it means when I was accepting of the writing when I took it at face value, as
Spoiler: show
some rich white kid trying to save his friends, but at the same time becoming distant from them by the things he has to do to save them
, but then I think that the writing's terrible when the writer says that it was supposed to be interpreted as some kind of metaphor about video games themselves.



On the subject of good video game writing:

There was another game this year that actually DID receive lots of praise for being a metaphor about video games, and that was SpecOps: The Line.

Most of you guys have probably already heard about it. I think this is a really good example of how writing can be done well in video games. I don't think that it's absolutely perfect, despite all the praise I'll heap onto it, but I think that it's very, very interesting. I want to talk about it, but I also don't want to use spoilers.

It's a modern military shooter that is essentially about how modern military shooters are terrible. It uses video game tropes and conventions and looks at the connections between the player and the player's character, and the motivations for both over the course of the game. And in the player's case, the player's motivations for playing games like CoD or Battlefield.

So if you haven't played it, you should take a look at SpecOps: The Line. For those saying that no video game ever has good writing these days, give it a try. Again, it's not perfect. It can be a bit heavy-handed, and transparent at times. But I still think that overall, it's quite good, and it offers an experience that actually makes use of the interactivity of our medium. Hopefully we can see more of this sort of thing in the future, even if it is out of the way and hard to find, and not in AAA games.

And similarly to Far Cry 3, the lead writer of SpecOps: The Line has spoken some on the internet about the story. He, however, offered one interpretation of the game, but also suggested that players should reach their own conclusions about the story. And it came off infinitely less assholish than "Nobody understands my vision of Far Cry 3!"

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby wibod » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

I think SpecOps has a lot of interesting ideas, but it's heavy handed exposition and the white phosphorous scene detract from the story and message it's trying to convey.

On the topic of Far Cry 3; all I know about it is that you're some white dude stoned out of his mind who gets used by one pirate gang leader to kill another. And then John Walker started shitting up RPS saying it was full of magical negro tropes and was a horribly racist game. Can you confirm or deny this Emu?
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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Mr. » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:39 pm

wibod wrote:On the topic of Far Cry 3; all I know about it is that you're some white dude stoned out of his mind who gets used by one pirate gang leader to kill another. And then John Walker started shitting up RPS saying it was full of magical negro tropes and was a horribly racist game. Can you confirm or deny this Emu?


That's more or less true. And that's what caused the lead writer to come out and say, essentially, "No, but you see, all of the racist cliches were deliberately used to subvert the genre! It's all a brilliant satire on gaming!" So from my perspective, it went from being a mostly functional story with the usual video game/movie tropes, to being a complete failure of a satire. You don't making a satire of something by making the exact same thing as that something, and then saying "GET IT? IT'S SATIRE"

wibod wrote:I think SpecOps has a lot of interesting ideas, but it's heavy handed exposition and the white phosphorous scene detract from the story and message it's trying to convey.


It is heavy handed, especially in that scene, but I don't think that that scene detracts from the overall story. It actually seems like a central point to it.


Not any SPECIFIC spoilers, just vague ones
Spoiler: show
The biggest problem I had with the scene, when I was playing it, had to do with choice, or the illusion of choice. But again, that seems to be a central point to the rest of the story, as well.

That, specifically, is a limitation of storytelling in games. In a book or a movie, the hero can walk right into a trap, even if the reader/viewer sees it coming a mile away. In video games, the player literally has to walk the hero into a trap, so if they see it coming, well... there's nothing they can do. They have to walk into the trap to progress the story. I think that most of the game can handle exploring this concept, as it applies to the story, in a good way. But yes, that scene in particular does seem overly forced if you can see the trap.


Still, though, it provides a lot to talk about.

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby RazorclawX » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:37 pm

Archangel wrote:wrong.


Hey Archangel, who the hell are you?

That's right, you're an idiot who keeps coming here even though nobody likes you. For some reason you feel the need to prove that you're smarter and better than other people, but the difference between you and me is I already know I'm better than you and I don't need to prove it.
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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Krazy » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:54 pm

Guys, it's all written out in the good book.

DarkShadowDoom.6

[1] And I saw when the Mario opened one of the cartridges, and I heard, as it were the noise of Skrillex, one of the four Mesks saying, Come and see.
[2] And I saw, and behold a white horse, and he that sat on him had The Sims; and a crown was given unto him: and the name that sat on him was EA, and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
[3] And when he had opened the second cartridge, I heard the second Mesk saying, Come and see.
[4] And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that man should kill any attempt to have a life, and the name that sat on him was WORLD OF WARCRAFT, and Activision followed with him.
[5] And when he had opened the third cartridge, I heard the third Mesk say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that had on him had farmville in hand.
[6] And the name that sat on him was ZYNGA, and facebook followed with him.
[7] And when he had opened the fourth cartridge, I heard the voice of the fourth Mesk say, Come and see.
[8] And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was STARCRAFT II: HEART OF THE SWARM, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and writing worse than feces.


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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Archangel » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:49 am

IskatuMesk wrote:The death of the industry in its current state wouldn't be the death of video games even if it was a colossal collapse of biblical proportions - I hope I wasn't trying to convey that outcome, because I didn't mean to.


Gotcha. Yeah, that's what I thought you were conveying. Thanks for clarifying. I still don't see a lot of these mega-giants crashing. Not any time soon anyway. Not when their target market is the disposable income frat house. Until the economy hits the college loan department, I predict this crap is going to keep on trucking.

Lavarinth wrote:Somebody said video games are on the rise?

http://www.joystiq.com/tag/bankruptcy/

While businesses come and go, such studio shut downs have not occurred so drastically in quantity as the past few years compared to, well, the lifetime of video games. This is a major shake up of a time for the video game industry, and not even the big dogs are safe as evident by Atari and THQ this year, and that's only full bankruptcies, not even considering layoffs and location shutdowns.


"Full Bankruptcies" is a terrible term. Bankruptcy literally means nothing in business. Huge companies file for bankruptcies all the time, and it's to be expected especially in the economic snafu we have today. Donald Trump has filed for bankruptcy 4 times and he's still going. It's part of business. And a modicum of research would show you that Atari isn't dead yet, but buying some time to restructure. And while THQ may be dead in the water, its assets are going out to other plenty healthy companies hungry to buy. If anything's to learn from THQ, it's that poorly run companies ultimately die (duh). Who's to say what killed THQ? Industry changes or lopsided overhead and golden parachutes? Or Batman?


RazorclawX wrote:
Archangel wrote:wrong.


Hey Archangel, who the hell are you?

That's right, you're an idiot who keeps coming here even though nobody likes you.


Well, for starters, I'm a successful businessman with several corporations running healthy under my belt and hundreds of employees working under my watch. Plenty of people like me. Just not you. Because you have the skin of a gay bat's wing and you offend easily and I find it hilarious.

RazorclawX wrote:For some reason you feel the need to prove that you're smarter and better than other people, but the difference between you and me is I already know I'm better than you and I don't need to prove it.


So let me get this straight: You know so damn well that you're better than me at something you fail to specify, and you know you're so much better at it (or that or whatever) than me that you don't need to prove it, so you don't prove it, by claiming that you don't have to prove it.

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Thanks for playing.

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Falchion » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:43 am

Archangel wrote:"Full Bankruptcies" is a terrible term. Bankruptcy literally means nothing in business. Huge companies file for bankruptcies all the time, and it's to be expected especially in the economic snafu we have today. Donald Trump has filed for bankruptcy 4 times and he's still going. It's part of business. And a modicum of research would show you that Atari isn't dead yet, but buying some time to restructure. And while THQ may be dead in the water, its assets are going out to other plenty healthy companies hungry to buy. If anything's to learn from THQ, it's that poorly run companies ultimately die (duh). Who's to say what killed THQ? Industry changes or lopsided overhead and golden parachutes? Or Batman?


Three things: Incompetence, lack of control and blind faith. THQ was so dependent on Darksiders, Saints Row and the Relic games, like Space Marine, that they didn't care much to find other options to expand their profit and cover the debts they were in. That, and the fact THQ knows *nothing* of money administration are the only explanation as to why they went bankrupt. THQ's primary fault was lack of ambition. They wanted little over the 2000-2010 decade. And little they have got. That's the truth.

But I agree that the assets will be passed on and not die. The problem is the grim future they'll face, particularly Darksiders, should it be sold to either Ubisoft or EA (Mesk will disagree, but I like Darksiders 2 to a degree).
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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Archangel » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:02 am

And that's the sad pattern of the corporate life cycle. People like to bitch and moan about corporations getting larger, profits getting bigger and CEO payouts getting fatter. But what they don't understand is that the moment a corporation gets complacent, it begins to die. Greed stagnation is the swan song of any company.

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Alevice » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:11 am

By the time THQ began to overrely on Metro/Relic/Vigil was already on its toes. The biggest THQ failure was actually having had to rely on franchises such as Nickelodeon's that didn't provide enough profit (due to the rise of free web games and stuff), alongside with the disaster the uDraw was. They were not in the financial condition to expand that much broader. It was one of the few large corporations that had begun to invest into quality gaming and not that rehashed franchises (wether it was succesful or not is irrelevant).

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby wibod » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:13 pm

Alevice wrote:By the time THQ began to overrely on Metro/Relic/Vigil was already on its toes. The biggest THQ failure was actually having had to rely on franchises such as Nickelodeon's that didn't provide enough profit (due to the rise of free web games and stuff), alongside with the disaster the uDraw was. They were not in the financial condition to expand that much broader. It was one of the few large corporations that had begun to invest into quality gaming and not that rehashed franchises (wether it was succesful or not is irrelevant).


Basically THQ was hoping to rake in the casual audience with the uDdraw and sunk a lot of time and money into making it a good product (it ended up being quite good). No one bought the thing though and THQ lost a shit ton of money and then their stocks fell off a cliff as investors were like "what the hell you said this would make us so much money".
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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Archangel » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:45 pm

It looks to me like a classic case of not understanding your audience. The uDraw tablet was perfect for the wii for the same reason the Wii makes up 5% of Modern Warfare units sold. I could have told those clowns at THQ that porting uDraw to the other consoles would be suicide.

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Re: Heart of the Swarm opening cinematic

Postby Taeradun » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:07 am

the biggest mistake thq made was the lack of homeworld games on steam or gog i mean what the fuck
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