HotS Beta 9/2012

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Pr0nogo » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:25 pm

The Oracle's wishy-washy Mitt Romney-style changes are more heinous. The Hellbat is just humorous.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:01 pm

Video (Husky) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUYONZKGFl0#t=9m00s

So in the recent HotS beta, they changed the button order in the Arcade Tab in the following way :

- Spotlight
- Open Games
- Browse
- Fun or Not
etc.

Although it seems Browse is STILL the default one when you click on the Arcade button/tab.

In a way, I am pleased that the "Open Games" button is now above the "Browse".

The "Open games" button before "Browser" is a bit of progress at least.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:18 pm

When you make progress based on the position of buttons I think you should reconsider your involvement with this nonsense.
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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Pr0nogo » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:09 pm

I am in agreement with Mesk.

The latest balance changes are hilarious.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:37 pm

IskatuMesk wrote:When you make progress based on the position of buttons I think you should reconsider your involvement with this nonsense.


I would say the real "progress" behind it is more Blizzard actually giving a small shit when everything otherwise pointed that they won't even try to do the tiniest of things for HotS's custom map scene (other than editor extras or other stuff that won't matter if the scene becomes a critical state of near-death).

But yes, real honest progress would make the Open Games the default page when clicking the Arcade tab or many other changes.

Pr0nogo wrote:The latest balance changes are hilarious.


Well, some of it can be quite questionable. But at this point, I would rather have them throw off the balance for now if only to make the HotS beta stop feeling too much like WoL (short of some specifics) from what I have seen.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Pr0nogo » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:11 pm

Ricky, the Mothership now has a spell that kills a single non-massive unit. Vortex is now worthless. Seeker Missile is just Yamato Gun for the Raven.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Falchion » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Pr0nogo wrote:Ricky, the Mothership now has a spell that kills a single non-massive unit. Vortex is now worthless. Seeker Missile is just Yamato Gun for the Raven.


Man, I saw in Husky's videos what the changes were and how they were. Utterly ridiculous. Made me want even more to be away from multi matches.
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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:46 pm

Pr0nogo wrote:Ricky, the Mothership now has a spell that kills a single non-massive unit. Vortex is now worthless. Seeker Missile is just Yamato Gun for the Raven.


I do admit those two changes kind of went over my head.

For the Mothership, yeah they could probably just greatly weaken the duration or the aoe of Vortex and it would have been enough.

As for Seeker Missile, yes, it does feel quite a bit like the Yamato Gun. Probably they should have just gave the right buffs/nerfs to the AoE version and be done with it.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Falchion » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:
Pr0nogo wrote:Ricky, the Mothership now has a spell that kills a single non-massive unit. Vortex is now worthless. Seeker Missile is just Yamato Gun for the Raven.


I do admit those two changes kind of went over my head.

For the Mothership, yeah they could probably just greatly weaken the duration or the aoe of Vortex and it would have been enough.

As for Seeker Missile, yes, it does feel quite a bit like the Yamato Gun. Probably they should have just gave the right buffs/nerfs to the AoE version and be done with it.


Rick, the WHOLE game needs redesign ever since WoL alpha. And, judging by the way things are going today, it will get worse, I bullshit you not.

IMO, if they wanted the Void Ray more viable, I'd do like this: Alter the Void Ray's attack manner in which it'd strike three targets at one, but it wouldn't charge and would only deliver 1/3 or 1/4 of it's damage.

Also, the Thor's new, explosive AA attack wanted to make me laugh, both on pity and shame of it.

BTW, Kim's explanation on faster Medivac speed a chance of bringing it back? MAN, Medivac drops are what MAKES Terran play in WoL. These ripped off Valkyrie afterburners will just make Meds more and more abusable. Same for that Mine tech (Fast Burrow).

I'm only sticking to HotS for it's editor, which I'll appraise the doodad library for my campaign, and the Single-player, which I predicted will get worse. Simple as that. If I ever get in a multi-match, team, solo or FFA, it's because I'm having a masochistic issue beyond a human's normal sense.
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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:09 pm

Falchion wrote:Rick, the WHOLE game needs redesign ever since WoL alpha. And, judging by the way things are going today, it will get worse, I bullshit you not.


Yes, I am aware that it does need a redesign. SC2 always is gimmicky overall. I do remember Mucky quitting serious SC2 laddering 2 years ago while he did play and enjoyed SC1 melee a ton before.

I guess they are honestly trying something different even if they screw up on many points.

Ultimately, if it goes that badly, it just means that Blizzard loses the melee scene and SC2 goes down the drain hardcore as the custom map scene still didn't recover that much yet. Still a very possible future.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:37 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:
IskatuMesk wrote:When you make progress based on the position of buttons I think you should reconsider your involvement with this nonsense.


(other than editor extras or other stuff that won't matter if the scene becomes a critical state of near-death).

But yes, real honest progress would make the Open Games the default page when clicking the Arcade tab or many other changes.


The scene, at least the mapping scene, is already near-death. It may as well be dead, because it never lived.

To fix this you'll need a tremendous, colossal overhaul to the entire way Blizzard approaches custom content. And this will not happen.
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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:42 pm

IskatuMesk wrote:To fix this you'll need a tremendous, colossal overhaul to the entire way Blizzard approaches custom content. And this will not happen.


In their current state, I don't think the required efforts are that huge.

If they really want to fix the custom scene, they need to do this :

1A) Have a refresh button for open lobbies so they go back up to the top of the open game list.
OR
1B) Reverse or randomize the open game list so that new unpopular maps don't get put away and actually be encouraging to be patient for hosting unpopular maps.

2) Plus making open games the default tab or any method to put open games as first class and popularity as second class. By that, I imply they don't even need to kill their precious popularity system and keep it as it is.

That's it.

Nothing else as everything else more or less solve itself. Then Blizzard can just do what they please including not giving a single shit anymore. They could even add premium maps in without hurting anything major. Pretty much as long they don't undo the above changes.

The only real catch is they need to do it at least one of the two changes by HotS' release or at worst before players bail out post-HotS.

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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:01 pm

The problems don't just lie in the battle.net interface. Battle.net is only a symptom of the problem. The problem is that Blizzard does not care. Blizzard has never cared. If they cared, battle.net wouldn't have ever been allowed to be what it is. The editor wouldn't have ever been allowed to be what it is. We'd have the 3ds max plugin and all would be colon three. Any company who cares or respects the custom content system chooses to support it and communicate, and furthermore act.

But the fact they do not care is evident in all of their actions to this date, all of the back patting, the minor "hopeful" changes, and the overall stagnation of the game and company as a whole. I talked to Blizzard employees months ago now, supposedly directly working with the interface. They agreed with what I said, looked into my posts I gave them, so on. Nothing. Interns there to pat us on the back and keep the morale as high as possible for hots sales. Chances are they aren't even in the company anymore.

The popularity system is derived of staff who have no idea how online distribution actually works nor care to observe and/or directly interact with it. Staff working their hearts off on Titan to scoop up more casual ectoplasm.

The editor being as much of a mess as it is serves as a huge entry barrier and serves to prevent many more mappers from joining the scene, you effectively cut off progress at the knees before you even hit battle.net with its innumerable limitations and censorship. The pool of mappers was never large to begin with, it's not like battle.net single-handedly screwed everyone - only those with release-worthy projects (the 1%).

At the end of the road, the damage is done. No matter what blizzard does from this point on they cannot revive what never existed. The community meta, so to speak, has devolved to a point where it is a primordial cesspool of vomit with no chance for recollection. I can't put the blame for this entirely on blizzard themselves, but they certainly didn't promote a productive atmosphere.

In warcraft 3 people kept saying "we need an Antioch" to jump-start our custom content. It didn't happen, and no one understood why. The reason why was because there was no one who wanted to be involved. Like someone from SME told me, "Wc3 hands you everything in a way that makes it entirely uninteresting to make content for".

You can cling to whatever hope you choose to, maybe it'll work out for you. But I know you have a skillset that will never, ever reach its potential in this game.
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Re: HotS Beta 9/2012

Postby Falchion » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:18 am

Yup, just skimmed through most forums, and I can safely declare you this: Patch #8 is the most unpopular patch in all Blizzard's sordid, lardish history.

Also, I'm adopting this as my new commentary:

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