Warlords and Merchants Discussion

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Ricky_Honejasi
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Wed May 16, 2012 9:07 pm

EVWeb wrote:The AC is underpowered. It needs either more health, or more powerful weapons.


Ill probably do it something at some point. Likely more health since weapons always did go wrong somehow.

Although ill recommend you repost. All to indirectly remind me of that X weeks/months later as I recheck that thread and see your evil name (or someone else's) as the last poster. Yup.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:29 pm

So after quite a while, some new changes of W&M for the next FFS :

A) Added new Combo unit : HydraLick
B) Atomic Crusader's HP raised by 100 (600 to 700).
C) Wraiths no longer require a Tech Lab

HydraLick
Tier 3 Combo Unit from Merchant's Neo Combo Structure
Costs 225m/75g/2s
60 build time
160 HP, 18 damage per 0.83s, 5 attack range
Can use standard Hydralisk upgrades
Attack has the tentacle-like model from the Infestor to do the "licking".

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:09 pm

Well, the beta Arcade is clearly helping as I manage to get 2 public games going fairly easily after having to wait 5-10 minutes to get 4-5 people. Also implying you can get a few occasional games on the beta Arcade if wanted.

So I am presuming that on the "real" Arcade that W&M will become more than possible to get full houses or 6-8 in my estimates.

The only real drawback is that 1.5 seems to have took a performance hit and it might reflect worse on W&M compared to some other maps.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:40 pm

Changes applied on the beta Arcade version of W&M. Will be applied on normal patch 1.5 or very soon after.

1) There are now first-time tutorials for Warlords and Merchants.
2) Warlords' starting workers now auto "perfect split" on minerals, rally the main base on minerals and queue 5 workers.
3) Warlord's Defender now have 2 armor.

Notes :
- I intend to change the main terrain on normal W&M based back to Exotic Garden when the real patch 1.5 hits in. By default, the lobby size will be 10 with a possibility to pick 15.
- The earlier set of changes (which includes the HydraLick) aren't added in the beta Arcade.
- The first-time tutorial is kind of a wall of text but you can close it asap then type -t or -tutorial to see it again.
- The first-time tutorial is only seen the first time and the bank stores that detail to prevent showing it over and over again from game to game.
- The Zerg's initial "auto-queue" only uses 2 larva automatically out of 3 into workers. I consider that some players might prefer the 3rd larva for an overlord while some might prefer a drone.
- The initial "auto-queue" system is partially intended to encourage warlords into actually reading the short tutorial to know how to buy. As opposed to not just build everything and completely ignore merchants out of not willing to bother slowdown a bit to learn it.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:51 pm

So far managed about 10+ W&M games in total over the beta Arcade.

W&M is even currently a page 1 map in the top played games. It even managed to be #3 top played at best. Although it managed to eventually downgrade from a 4/5 stars to a 3/5 stars. Although honestly, a lot of all maps that deserve 5 stars got 4 and those that deserve 4 got 3, etc.

Anyway a change done on beta Arcade, will be added for the real 1.5 patch later on :

- Fixed "Remove 0 quantity units" feature which caused units' names to become incorrectly colored.

One of the changes I intend to do eventually is to make Warlord Defenders go back to 0 base armor (from 2) but would benefit from weapon/armor upgrades instead. Thus with Lv5 in both, I intend to give +10 damage and +5 armor total.

EDIT : Also added +100 max life (600 to 700) to Atomic Crusaders for the beta Arcade version.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:34 pm

Seems Battle.net changed something server-wise and it now shows gradual stars rather than a hardcored star or not. W&M on the beta currently stands at about 3.6 stars out of 5.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:36 am

I think the problem with W&M is that most people who play customs absolutely despise melee. Don't be too worried if it doesn't gain some massive cult following.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Falchion » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:16 pm

IskatuMesk wrote:I think the problem with W&M is that most people who play customs absolutely despise melee. Don't be too worried if it doesn't gain some massive cult following.


Either those people or those who honestly suck on melee. I'm of the second type.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Vetraeus » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:01 pm

Played 6 games, The Majority of games are 3 Warlords & the rest all merchant
Do not argue with an idiot; He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:07 pm

IskatuMesk wrote:I think the problem with W&M is that most people who play customs absolutely despise melee. Don't be too worried if it doesn't gain some massive cult following.


Well, I would be not surprised honestly since I kind of expect that. In general, those who are serious about playing melee would prefer pure melee (without my own personal changes to boot) if only to stay "pure" and play only with relatively equal skilled players in quick succession. Sometimes in the vain hope that they could be pro some day.

Ultimately, I care more that my map is at least reasonably enjoyable despite its perceived flaws and that it actually get played.

Vetraeus wrote:Played 6 games, The Majority of games are 3 Warlords & the rest all merchant
I am not be surprised either. For the common custom player, merchant is the more unique and easiest experience.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:01 am

Newest changes only on the beta Arcade. Got changes stocked on normal version that ill upload on normal some time.

- Combo Drones and Combo Probes no longer stop harvesting randomly.
- Combo Armed SCVs are no longer stackable in a same spot and now got collision.
- Landzone should no longer have an actor glitch when being constructed.

To prevent them to stop harvesting, I noticed some of them got "pushed" shortly after stopping mining thus I decided to search the "Collision" field in case some minor collision sizes screw everything up as the Gather ability itself is 100% fine.

Ultimately, I found that that said combo units had collision of "Unused (Air 15)" rather than "Ground, Forcefield". Changing that fixed the issue. Btw, Armed SCVs had no collision type at all explaining why they did all to stack on the same very spot.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:36 pm

So a very random replay for a certain someone (despite forgetting to tell him about it) for the beta Arcade. Feel free to download it and watch it for anyone else.

Note that I might reupdate W&M at any moment and the replay might not longer be valid.

In short, an epic defense of my part as a Warlord. What happened to me? Watch to find out!
Attachments
WandM Beta Arcade random replay.SC2Replay
(813.95 KiB) Downloaded 145 times

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:18 pm

I applied those changes both to the real versions and the beta Arcade version.

Newest changes :

1 - Goliath's Multi-Lock advanced research no longer give +20% attack speed (only now shooting air/ground simultaneously)
2 - Warp Prism's Power Field's AoE range is buffed to 125% from 100%.
3 - Zerg Spine Crawlers now attack 20% faster.
4 - (Beta Arcade only) Scouts now properly gain damage upgrades.

Misc. notes :

- Over the normal SC2, I pretty much uploaded pre-Arcade versions to change the terrain and variants right to the ones I want for the Arcade in advance. This includes changing the main W&M's terrain from Delta Quadrant to Exotic Garden again as it will likely become common to have 8+ players per game.

- Variants includes :
Lobby 1 - FFA 10 players
Lobby 2 - FFA 10 players (for those AFK host cases on Lobby 1)
Custom/Private - FFA 15 players
FFA Solo with 3 AIs (mostly intentional for first-timers)

- I intend to add a variant for using the Sandbox mode more directly. Maybe a variant for a higher supply cap than 300 and such.

- I got many many notes of things ill have to check and do for W&M when the real Arcade hits. It's just many of them is kind of making my workload double if I bother to do it for the beta Arcade AND keeping it for the normal versions.

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:17 pm

Worry only about the arcade versions and stop updating the non-arcade versions. It is pointless to maintain the old versions now.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:56 pm

The thing is I am not sure if Beta Arcade maps will 100% act the same as soon the Arcade patch hits for real. In addition, I cannot magically upload the Beta Arcade version on the non-Arcade in advance.

Those are more pre-Arcade changes so that those that played W&M over the Beta don't go WTF due to it being that small Blizzard terrain instead of being Exotic Garden on day 1 along with uncarried changes. I have zero guarantee that I can or will be willing to fix all the hiccups on day 1. Thus those changes will be "good enough" in the grand scheme of things.

It sounds stupid but I could easily get quite many permanent unrecoverable early 1 or 2 stars. I don't care in the long run but it could hurt a lot in the short run. I still expect there will be still some snowball popularity aspect even with the open lobbies in.

Anyway, I already did all the pre-Arcade changes I really cared. With the Beta Arcade having less and less players, it becomes more and more preferable for me to just wait until the real Arcade hits in.

For now, the only thing I might really care are triggers. For example, minor "outsider" buys from merchant and/or maybe some "greedy" neutral merchant selling every standard unit possible but at 200% for warlords along with sales adaption.


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