The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:45 am

Mostly a thread about your opinions about the patch 1.5 they intend to do.

Blizzard's newest news about it : http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/459275 ... _2012#blog

So far, the real positive changes/features I have seen so far are :
-> They will add some sort of "open lobbies" (as some randomized list of open lobbies).
-> They intend to add some LAN-like (but not true LAN) for less latency between adjacent computers. Probably to avoid tournament games to lose connection in front of the public video streams.
-> The patch is intended to be released before HotS.

Unfortunately based on old screenshots, it was at least intended to make the popularity system worse to show case like only the first 5-10 maps instead of encouraging to check at least the first 2-3 pages of maps.

While they intend to add open lobbies, I am not sure if it will buried somewhere where most players won't notice it enough to bother with it. It could also show 60-75% of the pages 1-3 maps thus being pointless for "unpopular" maps (which it's the main reason for it).

They also intend to make "Fun or Not" join open lobbies rather than some lobbyless random map out of nowhere. However, Fun or Not's "popularity" got shot down so much that nobody want to use this feature anymore. As far I know, still no group join either.

In the end, it's a patch with the potential to fix a lot of things (especially with the "open lobbies" part). However, it's very late all things considered and I wouldn't be surprised it somehow goes very wrong.

Battle.net 0.2 tend to have features that *CAN* be quite good but it's always the details that ultimately screw it up horribly. Some examples being : "Fun or Not" not allowing groups or have any sort of control to pick maps, only 3-4 map categories instead of 8+, easily fixable popularity system for rotating map lists, etc.

Considering how it went with patch 1.3 (addition of "Fun or Not") going very flat, I am hopeful for patch 1.5 but I prefer to wait and see. Since HotS will be out fairly soon after patch 1.5, it will be a patch to determine if Blizzard will wake up and fix just enough or if HotS deserve to not be bought at all ... as far I am concerned.

As a completely side note, if I do jump into HotS, I do intend to at least keep a WoL version of W&M.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:57 pm

If I want anything out of HoTS I'll just rip it, I think. There's no point in putting money into an unfinished product anymore.

That said, while I am looking forward to seeing their art tools, I won't be surprised to find myself using NiN's tools post-1.5.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:47 pm

In terms of art tools, I think the only one that could honestly interest me is the dialog editor from what I heard.

Yes, it can be annoying to constantly test your map (and wait) for minor dialog modifications just because you cannot see where's your button is concretely placed or if the text easily goes out of your dialog, etc.

On a yet completely side note, due to how the custom map system works, it risks to have a harsher split when HotS comes as many map makers will want to update their maps to HotS ... in other words, no longer compatible with WoL-only. Thus, instead of War3/TFT where you could stick with War3-only maps, you probably have to do the jump to HotS or be left out rather than a having a good middle choice.

Depending on how things goes, it might actually end up that mapmakers would be wiser to stick to WoL-only (unless you have a clear need/use of HotS models/features) just to have WoL-only players playing their map as well for extra popularity times.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby IskatuMesk » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:42 pm

I'm only really interested to see if they have a solution to particle editing and exporting multi-object smoothed meshes in a max version that is not 6 years out of date by the time it shows up.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:47 am

While I don't personally care that much about Blizzard DotA but anyway :

So another aspect of the patch 1.5 is "streaming". It seems it's not streaming as in streaming games/replays of tournaments in SC2 but streaming game data like Guild Wars 1 or so. In other words, you don't need to have the full data but only the strict minimum to be able to play and the extra is downloaded over time.

Since they said Blizzard DotA would be free, they also intend to allow the map to be played even with the free edition of SC2. However, downloading like 2.5 to 4 GB of compressed SC2 data just to play DotA is a lot for many players.

Thus, that's where streaming comes in. If they only need to download like 1 GB, it becomes much more reasonable for random people that have no clue about SC2 to try Blizzard DotA.

Even if we don't care about DotA itself, it could mean that we don't need to wait a long time for new future patches just to pop on battle.net. Especially if it's new models/sounds that you don't need for your next game anyway.

Although back to Blizzard DotA itself, for the longest time I thought it being free was just plain bullshit on their part and they would 180 it into a premium map when it comes out. However, the streaming plan simply say otherwise ... there is no alternative and justifiable reason to add it anyway.

Considering their current plans, it's much more likely their cash will come in some unannounced paid content (extra heroes, skins, bonuses, etc.) for DotA. They already did implement their Blizzard $ Account thingy. Also curious if they will honestly update DotA over time due to that while considering their poor track record to update their own maps.

There also the potential side bonus of Blizzard DotA players seeing all the "shiny and potential" custom maps and then willing to pay 60$ for the full SC2.

Unfortunately, against their competitors LoL and DotA2, I believe Blizzard DotA will fall behind in the grand scheme of things. LoL and DotA2 are released before and pretty much have guaranteed developer support over time. I do occasionally play LoL and despite its lower graphical quality, it clearly have the big community advantage that SC2 is sorely lacking. For example, when you finish a LoL game, there is a chat window (along with each player's items/kills/etc.) for all players involved and it's a good and simplistic way to make friends.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby RazorclawX » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:07 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:Considering how it went with patch 1.3 (addition of "Fun or Not") going very flat, I am hopeful for patch 1.5 but I prefer to wait and see. Since HotS will be out fairly soon after patch 1.5, it will be a patch to determine if Blizzard will wake up and fix just enough or if HotS deserve to not be bought at all ... as far I am concerned.

As a completely side note, if I do jump into HotS, I do intend to at least keep a WoL version of W&M.


They still think they can release HotS this year?

Beside the Viper, the thought of buying HotS is filled with a bunch of "meh". I don't even play WoL anymore.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:09 pm

I'm only interested to see what kind of particle assets their Dota has. Speaking of which, I'm not sure where the assets for Left to die are hiding...
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:14 pm

RazorclawX wrote:They still think they can release HotS this year?

Beside the Viper, the thought of buying HotS is filled with a bunch of "meh". I don't even play WoL anymore.


That's hard to say. By "soon after", I probably mean a few months. In my personal guesses, I expect the 1.5 patch to be out in 4-5 months then HotS coming in early 2013. They already got D3 and the WoW panda expansion to release first thus it's clear they will delay the time between the game releases.

EDIT : And yes, the HotS IS filled with "meh" all over it.

IskatuMesk wrote:I'm only interested to see what kind of particle assets their Dota has. Speaking of which, I'm not sure where the assets for Left to die are hiding...


It's in their separate mod for "Left to Die". You got to download it either by d/ling the map (along with the mod) or open the editor and search for the mod (named "Left to die" or so) to open.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Hunter_Killers » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:27 am

They did a great job forgetting to release the art tools.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:48 pm

Hunter_Killers wrote:They did a great job forgetting to release the art tools.

Unfortunately yes. Although, I guess they can do at a later date.

Despite having trouble to make a map search and finding my map OR being unable to upload my latest W&M version, I managed to play 4 games of W&M with 6 pubbie players minimum per game.

EDIT : Finally was able to send my updated version of W&M. Mostly the "Day One" Arcade fix to allow Overlords to be made by Zerg players.
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby IskatuMesk » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:58 am

> rely on half-assed "mod" system for campaigns
> force these files to be in certain directories
> delete all the files in said directories when patching
> profit
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Falchion » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:34 am

Ma, I've played through the new interface and seen the editor and played with it a bit and I must admit. The interns did it again, they worsened what was already bad.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

/edit proof from map editor:

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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby GnaReffotsirk » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:21 pm

How could anyone break something like this? Dammit!
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Hunter_Killers » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:38 pm

I'm surprised I actually got a response that wasn't a complete dodge.

Greetings! Our StarTools suite of art tools and plugins require Patch 1.5.0 or later, so now that the patch is out, the road to releasing them has been paved. We're actively preparing a StarTools Beta and hope to have it in the hands of an initial round of public testers very shortly en route to a full release.

We'll provide more updates on StarTools in the coming weeks. In the meantime, thanks for your interest and know that we're really excited to get them out to you so we can start seeing all the full-featured art the community makes with them!


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6232303460#10
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Re: The planned patch 1.5 (Arcade patch)

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:45 pm

It seems that Blizzard did assign like 3-4 new members very specific to the mapmaking scene in the long term. As in people that actually give answers, give some concrete help and so on for all mapmaking related things.

It's likely Blizzard's concrete move to avoid that mapmakers feel downright ignored post patch 1.5. Quite frankly, after 2 years, it's probably the best initial move to break the thick and eternal ice that was formed after so long.
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