Warlords and Merchants Discussion

[Krazy]

Don't worry Mesk, I've upped my AIDS-related jokes by 9000% in your absence to make up for the gaping hole in our lives.

[Ricky_Honejasi]

Latest changes for next FFS:

A) Combo Drones and Probes have different control groups for each sub-type.
B) Elite - Atomic Cruiser's 2nd weapon +1 range (same range as 1st).
C) Landzone have a ground radius for attacking melee units.
D) Weekly OP buffing : Firebats have +10 damage vs structures. (18 total vs structures, 0.6 attack speed)
E) Weekly OP buffing : Protoss Reavers' Scarabs deals 140 base damage (from 100).
F) Weekly OP buffing : Zerg Princess have 4x energy regen. (2.2/sec)

So first of all, I clearly don't know what causes some combo workers to not mine. Closest I did was to set different control groups, put normal height and the right sizes (2nd combo isn't bigger than 3rd).

Next, I didn't thought footprint stuff was the true cause of landzones not having a radius for melee units to hit on. Had to decide to compare with a lowered supply depot to find that out.

Finally, since some truly underused units will just hit the dust regardless of minor/medium buffs I give them. Might as well go with a weekly overbuff for the SHAKE of making people try them any half-seriously. Overbuffs will be removed after each week (perhaps keeping part of the buff). The most underused the unit is, the more high the overbuff is likely to be.

A few things I am considering :
1) Making the firebats oriented as anti-structures. Firebats simply won't win in the hellion game.
2) Maybe have some alternative fire for reavers where it can switch the usual strong scarab or "fast-fire" minor scarabs.

[IskatuMesk]

Just give firebats 5,000 health.

[Krazy]

you know people would get reavers if there were arbiters

although I guess making them do INSANE AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE might work too

[Ricky_Honejasi]

you know people would get reavers if there were arbiters

although I guess making them do INSANE AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE might work too

I am still hesitant to add arbiters considering on how constant cloak/decloak would slowdown and how their base SC1 abilities would be very abusable in big numbers. If I do bother, they would probably only have the cloak for units (not structures) and probably a much smaller cloaking range than Motherships.

Well, reavers already do 100 damage/scarab + some splash and they only cost 200/100 a pop. At best, colossus is always picked over them despite reavers being ground army wreakers.

In terms of permanent buffs, I can only see giving reavers more base speed (other than the rapid fire idea)

[IskatuMesk]

I think the problem is not necessarily the reaver being underpowered, but the Colossus being overpowered. Colossi are pretty retarded as it is. I can't see any changes to them being beneficial, though. Just the flaw of sc2 melee.

[Ricky_Honejasi]

Well it depends, the Colossus is vulnerable to Air and Ground so you pretty much only need air units of any kind to beat the colossus. Plus quite a few ground units still manage to do OK if the colossi aren't in big numbers.

Meanwhile the Reaver is only considered ground and easily wreaks the ground units (except tanks and some specific units). Counter-wise, other than tanks, you are essentially stuck with about half of available air units to do the job.

But ultimately since the Reaver have like 1.2 speed, can't cross cliffs and so on, the inability to get them quick enough on the battlefield other than using transports might be the biggest turn off.

[IskatuMesk]

What makes the colossus so ridiculous is, simply, cliffwalking. About the only thing that truly trivializes them is the fact that scourge can ram into them, but the same goes with all of the air units, too. The difference here is that colossi, unlike reavers, are incredibly maneuverable.

[Krazy]

Ricky I was implying that they already do insane amounts of damage.

I'd probably use them for defense, but honestly most people's idea of an attack any more is spamming ACs into my defender.

[Ricky_Honejasi]

Depends, ACs are Light and they die ridiculously quick to AA hellions or worse AA strafing hellions (which are now Combo Lv4 from 5). Otherwise, AC's 2nd weapon no longer attack ground so ground-to-air units tend to be much more usable vs ACs.

Although for the Defender, I might have to rework the current Defender upgrades into 5 levels each for the Adv.Research merchant so that Defenders sucks less in late game. Although, originally the Defender was more intended as an anti-rush/anti-"early cheese" mechanism.

Or perhaps have the Defender considered only a ground unit or something (instead of ground + air like the colossus).

[Xenon]

I tried putting reavers in bunker BCs and it actually worked pretty well, as long as I remembered to enable auto-build. Of course, in that build of the game the counter to anything was kamikaze AC attacks.

[Krazy]

Ricky, the defender is already pretty damn cost-efficient. I do not think you need to make it stronger.

[IskatuMesk]

Putting bikes in spec ops hercules and worms is the best though.

[Vetraeus]

Adding a special upgrade for merchants to spend assloads of money on that would increase the defenders damage by 20 is much more cost efficient, and make it Lvl5 while your at it. You should also give VRs fluxvanes back now that they are easily countered by Ghosts & the assload of AA units we have now. Lvl2 Adv Research perhaps. Also, ask Delerium for any of those WoW models, he'll compact em for you, ship em out and very little cost of space.

[IskatuMesk]

we love you vet, we really do