Warlords and Merchants Discussion

User avatar

IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:14 pm

DARK PYLON DARK DARK DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARKKKKKKKKKKKK
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

User avatar

Vetraeus
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: South Carolina: Underwater
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Vetraeus » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:54 pm

Want your Dark Archons back?
Do not argue with an idiot; He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

User avatar

IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:05 pm

We need dark archons that can merge into twilight archons that can merge into void archons that can merge into shadow archons and finally that can merge into DEATH archons
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

User avatar

Vetraeus
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: South Carolina: Underwater
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Vetraeus » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:15 pm

You just butchered the words: Void, Shadow, Dark, and Twilight almost as bad as Blizzard has been for the past fifteen years!

Aside from butchering words. I went and took some time gathering materials

---Dark Archon: 200 SP/25 HP|250 Energy | Supply N/A (2 Dark Templars)
>Mind Control: Permanently mind controls the target unit, It cannot be a worker, psionic or massive.
>Feedback: Drains the target's energy, energy damage dealt is dealt in life. 50/50/75/75/100/100
>Maelstrom: Stuns units in an area of 3x3 for 8 seconds.

---Reaver: 200 HP/80 SP| 8 Scarabs | Supply 4
>Range 8
>100 + 25 (2.01as) True Damage
>Vision 10 RT
>0 +3 Armor
>6x6 AoE
>200 Minerals, 100 Gas

Reaver is accurrate, FIX IT!
Do not argue with an idiot; He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

User avatar

IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:04 pm

I think before we start screwing with more units or consider adding more, morphs for defenses and upgrades need to be added to warlords.
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

User avatar

Ricky_Honejasi
Xel'naga Solar Moderator
Xel'naga Solar Moderator
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:50 pm
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:24 pm

Ill just answer partially again.

- For defenses, I am mostly planning the Mucky's way with direct morph to 2x HP/Shields/Damage then to 3x HP/Shields/Damage (from 1x base). I probably won't have time to manage anything fancy.

- I do come to the conclusion in my own mind that Warlords should be able to reach 6/6/6 on their own. Thus, making them less vulnerable from the Adv.R Merchant and Adv.R getting less "free" cash out of 6/6/6 (while still being able to sell 6/6/6 for other 2 races).

- I do agree for adding a Hunter Killer morph for the Hydralisks (which probably be an upgrade on the Hydralisk Den and requiring a Hive). As for exact stats, I am not sure but probably 2x HP, somewhere between 1.5x damage and 2x, 75 minerals and 25 gas cost, 2x supply cost. Radius-wise, they would be the same as SC2 standard Hydralisks.

- There is a minor feature change I intend to change that is essentially requested but kept secret.

- Adding the Dark Archon is very VERY low in my priority list of changes.

- For everything else, either I didn't made my mind about it or it's a "no comment".

Side remarks :
- Reaver already exists in W&M and still require some of you to honestly try to get a few of them.
- Depending on my homework, I might completely skip updating (or greatly neglect it) W&M for this week. It's a specific homework that can end up being ridiculously tricky and eat a LOT of time if things goes very wrong.

Other planned changes :
- Dark Templar's costs from 125/125 to 150/100 or 175/100.
- Due to Dark Templar costs' changes, it would reflect on the Archon's costs likely being 300/200 or 350/200 instead of 250/250 to make them any used in-game.

Some changes I am thinking :
- Add an upgrade that allows 4 zerglings to spawn from an egg instead of 2. Batch of 4 zerglings would cost 100 minerals and 2 supply. Upgrade would require Hive and researchable on Spawning Pool.
- Possibly requiring only the Templar Archives to be able to train/warp-ing both High Templars and Dark Templars (from both Gateway and Stargates) instead of requiring one for HTs and the other for DTs.

User avatar

IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:44 pm

About your homework: Answer all questions with FUCK in French and move on to W&M. Problem solved.
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

User avatar

Vetraeus
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: South Carolina: Underwater
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Vetraeus » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:25 am

Just a warning, as the 6/6/6 Upgrades where were we got most of our pay from as Adv merchant, We'll need some more "useful" adv upgrades that would be worth it for Warlords so we don't go bankrupt, because from looking through the list of adv upgrades, about 45% of them are absolutely pointless by the time you get to Adv. 3 Research because more than likely by that time, 2-3 ppl are dead and everyone is at Tier 3 Tech, Baneling upgrade is useful, but needs work, scourge up is kinda pointless, and some others I care not to name are not even useful. Raging Defender only increases attack speed by the .5 ratio which is equively to nothing, If you increased it to .10 or .12 then it might actually be useful. Most of the upgrades upon playing through last week are broken in costs for Adv Up Merchant, I saw getting Mineral Adv Income to Lvl 2 and as people bought it, i recieved 0/0$ the same with gas and landing pad, I think your money system is screwed up a bit. Cheap and fast is still tooo fast for units to arrive at the landing zone, *cough* 8 seconds. 85% of all the Combo Units for Combo Merchant are redundant and as you upgrade further the ones prior to previous should morph into the next version and another unit takes the place of the previous. The "Display" for the Merchant/Warlord > Buy Interface is obscenely bad, and needs modifying, If there was an option for a Warlord to press one tiny little button of the side that pulled up a gigantic menu of Upgrades and Units for Sale, and the Warlord's already bought upgrades scrolled below with checkmarks, then it would make buying everything much easier. The Warlord's Gas income ratio is terrible and should be buffed, there is practicly no point in getting a geobinder if you own 2/3 the map (Mesk), and there really, really needs to be a Trade to supply function for warlords so they can transform Minerals to Gas, and gas to Minerals, also Terran Warlords need Automated refineries (Buffed) so they can spend more time mining, as we all know the Terran mineral economy is terrible. lets see what else.

>Corruptors need AoE 25-40% Splash until we can find a replacement unit or structure.
>Bunkers' need a reduced build time because the previous patch killed them again.
>Remove 1.5sec temp invulnerability on mothership so we don't have the stupid glitch everyone is doing in ladder now where you can Vortex Stack your own units repeatively until they are perma invul.
>Increase the Firebat's armor or get it a special upgrade so it would be used more "often".
>Increase the base armor of all Zerg buildings by 1 to make them more resistant to damage as they are biological/armored and take extra damage from practicly everything.
>Possibly remove the "armored" tag on structure to prevent lolvoidrayrape.
>Increase AoE of missile turrets so Missile Turrets are more "effective".

Some other stuff I can name off my head but I personally think this is alot to read.
Do not argue with an idiot; He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

User avatar

IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:36 pm

WALL OF TEXT CRITS ISKATUMESK FOR 42

ISKATUMESK DIES

(btw upg merchants are op as it is)
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

User avatar

Topic author
Mucky
Protoss Khalai Missionary
Protoss Khalai Missionary
Posts: 1037
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:35 pm
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Mucky » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:53 pm

Vetraeus wrote:Terran mineral economy is terrible.

You lost me here.

User avatar

Ricky_Honejasi
Xel'naga Solar Moderator
Xel'naga Solar Moderator
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:50 pm
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:20 pm

I think Warlord being able to get 6/6/6 for their own race would be fine as they would still need to buy 6/6/6 for 2 other races in many cases.

The Firebat already got 3 base armor, +6 armor upgrades and a special Adv.R +2 for Firebats for a total of 11.

Quite frankly, the issue is more that nobody honestly will try them (habit of standard melee units or "known working stuff") and unless Firebat essentially can counter Marines, Marauders, Tanks, Thors, Goliaths ... basically anything ground, it will be never used REGARDLESS of my changes.

Automated refineries are way too abusable. There is reason I never intend to add them : secretly build them map-wide then Terrans essentially owns Protoss and Zerg even worse than it is right now.

Delivery already has a lower cap of 16 seconds. Not 8.

Raging Defender is fine for a Lv2 Adv. Upg. It essentially gives 20% more DPS.

Scourge upgrade almost give the damage it has from SC1. This also reflect on Combo Scourges.

I have no intention to add any "Trade Depot" and I find the gas ratio fine which also forces to get more expansions and to consider your gas choices. Otherwise, I would have converted to mineral-only costs from the very beginning.

Also, you might want to break it in paragraphs, I tend to have a habit to skip a lot over walls of text.

User avatar

Ricky_Honejasi
Xel'naga Solar Moderator
Xel'naga Solar Moderator
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:50 pm
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:10 pm

So here's the upcoming changes I did tonight. I might do more for the next FFS but I give zero guarantee.

Latest Changes :
1) Minimap Pings are now disabled for Merchants.
2) Warlords can now research 6/6 upgrades for their race.
3) Dark Templars now costs 150/100 (from 125/125).
4) DT's costs changes spills into Archons' costs (now costing 300/200 as lowest gas costs).
5) Flux Vanes was removed from Merchants.
6) Void Rays charges 16% faster
7) Void Rays loses charge after 1 second instead of 5.

User avatar

Vetraeus
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: South Carolina: Underwater
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby Vetraeus » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:20 am

Elite Unit Ideas (Non-Updated) Previous ACCTL

}--|(VoidRay Capital Ship)[Planet Cracker]: 1500 Minerals, 2450 Gas, 24 Supply
250 HP, 2250 Shields, 300 Energy, 1.26ms, 6 Armor, (MultiWeapons), Psionic Shockwave, Cloak, Overdrive
--1st Weapon (Prismatic Beam): <12-18 Dmg, 1.00as, 7 Range, Max Charge 6> (No Special Values)
--2nd Weapon (Purifier Beam): <6 x 12-24 Dmg, 3.00as, 6 Range, 25% Chain>
--3rd Weapon (Guided Photon Cannon): <4 x 35 Dmg, 2.65as, 11 Range, 45% Splash>
--4th Weapon (Phoenix Launchbay): <6 x 12-18 DmgVsLight, 3.00as, 8 Range, 45 HP/25 SP, 2.6HP/SP/sec Regen while inside>
>>1st Aux (Embed Protoss Shielding): <Takes only 60% damage from all "Ground" attacks>
>>2nd Aux: (Heavy Glass Plating): < +2 Armor Points>



}--|(Destroyer Terran Battleship)[Lacrimator Class]: 1850 Minerals, 2000 Gas, 24 Supply
2000 HP, 500 Shields, 300 Energy, 1.44ms, 6 Armor, (MultiWeapons), Yamato Cannon (Splash 25%), Defense Matrix +500, Cluster Rockets (x8 Targets +25 Dmg)
--1st Weapon (AG): Hyperion Laser Cannons <20 x 12-18 Dmg, 1.56as, 6 Range, 65% Splash>
--2nd Weapon (AG LR): Burst Missile Launchers <8 x 8-24 Dmg, 2.74as, 10 Range, 25% Splash>
--3rd Weapon (AA): Stargazer Beam Cannons <6 x 12-22 Dmg, 2.55as, 7.5 Range, 25% Splash>
--4th Weapon (AA LR): Hunter Seeker Pack <4 x 45 Dmg, 4.20as, 11 Range, 50% Splash>
>>1st Aux (Capital Plating): <Takes only 60% damage from all "Ground" attacks>
>>2nd Aux (Strengthened Shields): < +2 Shield Points>

These two are only ideas of variatial units that might be a new setup. But only to an extent as they're air?
Do not argue with an idiot; He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

User avatar

High_Zealot
Terran Starport Baggage Handler
Terran Starport Baggage Handler
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby High_Zealot » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:28 pm

I've got a few bugs.

Merchants can't salvage anymore. The workers just ignore the order and just sit there and before when it did work in past versons, the salvage was instant when the worker had a queued order.

User avatar

IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8776
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: FFS Event Info and Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:13 pm

So...

Commandos unstealth themselves with their own attack. Or it was because I had a group of them and they were unstealthing each other. This should be fixed.

Void Rays feel much more balanced now.

I think Protoss Defenses are doing good early and mid game. Now we can think about the Nexus and such.

Echo aforementioned concerns about Zerg. Impress the need for creep to be returned to the way it was in sc1 and normalize movement speeds. Impress the need for a real anti-air unit besides just scourge. Corruptors are just bad. Just plain bad.

Planetary Hatchery Fortress.

Omegalisk tentacles need to be able to hit one target with more than 1 tentacle. All 4 sounds about right.

Make inject larva autocast?
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.


Return to “StarCraft II Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests