FFS Event Info and Replays

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IskatuMesk
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:03 pm

I actually never knew Lurkers existed the one time I played as Zerg or I'd have tried them. Same with scourge, to be honest. Haha.

Here's some ideas for some elite/combo units.

- Mustache Master; Brood Lord that has Brood Lord cohorts instead of Broodlings. The Brood lords then have their own broodlings. Or you can give him mutas.
- Leviathan; Leviathan from the campaign. Notable nerfs should be removable of the ability to make units and perhaps a damage nerf or a cooldown nerf on the bio attack, and some kind of nerf to the aoe disable as it's pretty spammable and strong. Should benefit from upgrades. Perhaps be a bit slower moving as well.
- Raven God; The giga raven I talked about before. Deploys mini planetary fortresses. Instead of defense drones, it deploys air drones using the graphic of those in the arcade map. These shoot at everything, not just missiles, doing moderate damage. Fires Hunter-Seeker Cock. This slow-moving missile explodes and steals mana/shields from enemy/allied units in an AoE and transfers it to the Raven God and any allied casters nearby. The drawbacks of this unit would be high cost, general frailty, supply cost and high tech level. Perhaps it could have additional turret types as well? One of its new turrets could be the Drums of Porn, which buffs nearby allies in some shape or form but has no attack.
- Dread Lurker; A lurker that fires a bouncing chain spike attack and has the ability to blink as well as burrow.
- Omegalisk; I noticed in RCX's map he actually added tentacles to the Omegalisk like it's supposed to have. I suggest to take suite with his changes and make this the upper-end zerg ground unit on merchants.

Oh yeah, and some comments about King Ultralisks since I used them in that game.

- Their damage doesn't seem very high, at least the splash doesn't. It was actually rather slow to kill DoW's drones with them...
- They animate too fast when walking. You can fix this by raising the walk speed number on their actor.
- I didn't feel their armor/shield made them much stronger. Spine crawlers still did a fair amount of damage to them. Then again, they are still fairly cheap and only cost 6 supply, so maybe that's for the best.


btw ricky, Boxer puts his reapers in bunkers too. So now you are officially on the level of the Korean all-star progamers.


I'm still waiting to receive the map with new terrain to modify or even hear about it.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:38 pm

Ill consider your suggestions for combo/elite units.

Also since ill implement Adv.Research merchants sooner or later. Some special research ideas could be nice for the various melee units.

So far the latest change log looks like this :
1) Warlord's workers now cost standard supply.
2) Dragoons' costs are now 150/75.
3) Dragoons' range have been reduced by 1.
4) Due to #3, Dragoons no longer outrange anti-ground defensive structures.
5) Scourges and combo equivalents' base damage from 110 to 90.
6) Combo scourges' additional levels now cost +5 gas/"level up" (10 -> 15)
7) Combo drones no longer become normal drones after burrowing.
8) Phoenixes can now properly auto-attack while moving.
9) Bikes (Combo unit) now gives +0.5 attack range to loaded units
10) Due to #9, murloc marines can now properly auto-attack from inside Bikes.
11) New Combo units : Floating Racial Workers and Half-Supply Racial Workers
12) Anabolic Synthesis (added Ultralisk tech) can no longer be researched multiple times.
13) Medivac Savior was better fixed and improved.
14) Modified combo units' rank text to a colored "Combo unit".
15) Merchants can now properly train Terran Predators.
16) Hopefully you will no longer see merchant trained units (except if you have detectors).

EDIT :

Btw, here's some potential examples of adv.research techs :

Lv1 - Great Charge : Allows Zealots to charge from a longer range (or re-charge sooner)
Lv1 - Worker survival : All workers gain +50% max HP/shields.
Lv3 - Improved Stimpacks : Stimpacks improves attack speed/movement by 75% instead of 50%.
Lv2/3/5 - Faster Construction : Allows warlords (any race) to cut build times down to 75%/50%/25%
Lv4 - Nydus Rush : Zerg Nydus (both "real" and "hubs") constructs in only 25% time and unload delays cutted down to 25%.
Lv5 - Local Spawn Larva : Allows all hatcheries/lairs/hives to self-Spawn Larva with auto-cast on.
Lv5 - Underground movers : Allows all Zerg units to move while burrowed.

EDIT 2 :

Lv1 - Extended Home Psi Range : Allows Psi Pylons to have 20% increased psi field range.
Lv2 - Warp Prism Psi Range : Allows Warp Prism to have higher psi field range when in phasing mode.
Lv2 - Swift Archon Fusion : Allows to fuse Archons in under 3 seconds.
Lv4 - Warp Prism Mobility : Allows Warp Prism to have a psi field even when in transport mode.
Lv3 - Home Worker Cloak - Allows Nexuses to cloak nearby workers in mining range. Doesn't cloak military units and such.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Changes are good so far but I really think the map's terrain needs to be rehauled before it's played again. I don't have any of the maps so I can't do anything until I get them.

Here's a few research suggestions;

SDI Defense - Allows Missile turrets to shoot down missiles like defense drones, but with a 3sec cooldown.
Armored To The Teeth - Allows planetary fortresses a second upgrade to reinforce their health.
Hellfire Rockets - Grants missile turrets the AoE cluster missile attack from the campaign.
Defense Matrix - Grants Science Vessels an AoE defensive matrix ability.
Robo-Kitty Leap - Allows Predators to jump up and down cliffs like Reapers.
Great Recall - Allows a Nexus to cast Recall with a 10 second charge-up cast time and a 2 minute cooldown.
Organic Synthesis - Allows your Zerg units enhanced HP regen while on creep. Could have multiple upgrade levels.
Tempest Shields - Grants Carriers the Tempest anti-ground immortal styled shield from Alpha.
Planet Cracker - Grants Motherships the Alpha Planet Cracker ability.
Astral Pathfinding - Allows Stargates to warp in units like Warp Gates. This would have to be a hugely expensive research.
Jump Drives - Research for capital ships to give them an ability to fly at high speed to a location. Cannot be attacked while in transit, but cannot be cancelled and cannot attack themselves. Could be given to Hercules transport as well.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Thalraxal » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:20 pm

If you want to make a version of W&M with Forgotten Citadel, go for it, just give me credit for the terrain. I'm almost finished making it look pretty, just a few more areas to do. Otherwise it's playable for FFA or melee, but I'd rather you wait until the map is all pretty before you W&M it.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:21 pm

Send it to me whenever. I'll make any changes or additions I deem necessary for W&M's balance/design (mostly regarding resource placement if I see anything notable) whenever I get it and then forward it to ricky.

You can e-mail it to malkor@gmail.com
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Lavarinth » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:55 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:
Lavarinth wrote:I would- except I can show up at 6:15 the earliest and you guys spend 3 hours playing it at 6 that I never play it and miss half the event. (Burn.)


Hmm, did I said in a previous post that I intend to start the event with the Phantom Mode map then we move on to W&M? :p


Ricky, I don't think you're grasping what I'm saying- I'm sick and tired of waiting at least an hour to play a game. First two, three weeks, I could excuse it, no big deal- But over and over I'm sitting in the StarCraft 2 main screen just waiting for hours. Yet, god forbid someone drops 20 minutes into a game once I'm playing, you'll want to restart it, but you wont restart when I sign on? Sorry bud, but that's the one thing that annoys me the most.

What makes you think I'm going to wait an hour (likely MORE) for Phantoms now? What difference is that from the three hour wait the prior weeks for every week I decided to play? Honestly, I rather not even bother logging on, and it's been made very clear by others that they feel the same. In fact, that's why I didn't bother to sign on for three weeks straight. Then I sign on, and nothing has changed- I still wait three hours. Long games should be saved for once everyone is on. I'm talking anything over 30 minutes.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:04 am

show up earlier
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Lavarinth » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:19 am

Right, because that's physically possible when you have a schedule of working 8 hours a day and you already show up one hour earlier than normal to try to get out in time to join, meaning I bother to wake up an hour earlier to show up to the event to get off at 6 (when it starts here) instead of 7, arrive home around 6:15, only to wait until 9:30 to play a game (last week).
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:56 am

Phantom Mode doesn't take hours.

Heck, I opened my now-compressed videos and our Phantom games lasted respectively 50 minutes (1st one) and 36 minutes (2nd one). Which is a lot less worse than the 1 1/2 hour to 3 hours that W&M can last.

As for rehosting, that is always tricky since I could rehost for you that shows up 15-20 minutes later, I could re-rehost for the next showing person at 30 minutes of event's start, I could re-re-rehost for the next person at 40 minutes ... I could re-re-re-rehost at 50 minutes ... ultimately wasting nearly a hour for starters considering how people can randomly arrive at FFS.

As for restarting for dropped people, yes I was in favor to do so but I don't recall doing it at the 20 minutes mark that often (except for Pictionnary pretty much since it doesn't "break" the game to so compared to games that develop).

Right now, Phantom Mode is pretty much my best compromise as a first game so that it doesn't take forever to be in the next game (which I do understand with W&M's really long games). While I could put Pictionnary as a first game, it feels kind of wasted and boring with only the starting 4-6 persons.

Otherwise, I guess we will need a new "mini-game" map for those first 15-30 minutes of the event that is fun but yet don't mind leaving (or rehosting) at a moment's notice.

Or yet, have the event start even later.

EDIT :
As for W&M being played when most people get in, I do consider most people should be in at the 30 minutes to 1 hour mark of the event's start at that point. If it really requires to be at the 2-3 hours event mark, I want to know for which good reasons people would arrive that late.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Lavarinth » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:02 am

Just go play TronCraft. (Kidding)
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:06 am

Lavarinth wrote:Just go play TronCraft. (Kidding)


Well, even if you were kidding, TronCraft can actually be that "mini-game" map that we could be looking for. It supports up to 6 people (always that person or two that don't observing anyway for the 7th/8th), fun. Since there is no end goal, it's less tempting to stay in for the long run.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:53 am

Lavarinth wrote:Right, because that's physically possible when you have a schedule of working 8 hours a day and you already show up one hour earlier than normal to try to get out in time to join, meaning I bother to wake up an hour earlier to show up to the event to get off at 6 (when it starts here) instead of 7, arrive home around 6:15, only to wait until 9:30 to play a game (last week).


so make a new event and don't expect people to wait for you?

or just quit wasting your life away slaving for other dudes and have free time *shrug*

also you are the only person I've ever heard whining about that. Maybe you should have said something when Ricky asked what time you wanted the event to start.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:55 am

Back to W&M for a bit, I am thinking about a considerable change.

I made 2 merchant techtrees and intend to expand over time. However, I do notice that people are too lazy to switch from "standard units" to "combo units" in the menus to check the merchant's combo units (which I expected people to be more naturally curious). This is most noticeable from Q saying that people didn't buy a single combo unit off him.

Granted, I admit that Q tend to sucks at advertising his key stuff but even then seeing "Combo merchant Lv1" should have been a "flag" in people's minds that just don't seem to trigger off.

Thus, here's a potential solution I just thought of (which I would want your opinions) :

1) Pack up all unit types (standard, combo, elite, etc. etc.) into "All Units" (for bottom-right menu)
2) Pack up all researches types (standard researches, future adv.research's researches) into "All Researches" (for bottom-right menu)
3) For all different types, have a colored name. For example, combo units would be teal, elite units would be yellow, etc. Standard will stay white. Adv.Research researches could be yellow vs the standard researches staying white.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Lavarinth » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:19 am

IskatuMesk wrote:also you are the only person I've ever heard whining about that. Maybe you should have said something when Ricky asked what time you wanted the event to start.


Actually, I did. Also, I'm not the only person. You just leave immediately after, so you don't hear the groans of everyone. But luckily when I play W&M, I make those games quick and deadly. 30 minutes last night, was it?

Ricky- I think your map's major issue is too many options. I spent more time clicking every single player in a drop down trying to see if they have what I need, and when they don't, my what a waste of time that was as my resources pile up fast. I know this is going to sound unhelpful but I suggest condensing the list or the available options for merchants in terms of what they can sell. I honestly find myself only browsing Standard Units because it's fast, quick, and easy. I don't have time in the middle of a battle to switch from Merchant Dread - Standard Units to Merchant Ricky - Combo Units and say, oh no, he's sold out, quick, go to Merchant Q - Combo Units, damn it, nothing, but I need something and Dread had cheap things, back to Merchant Dread, oh wait I'm in combo units, and then switch to Standard Units.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:24 pm

Lavarinth wrote:Ricky- I think your map's major issue is too many options. I spent more time clicking every single player in a drop down trying to see if they have what I need, and when they don't, my what a waste of time that was as my resources pile up fast. I know this is going to sound unhelpful but I suggest condensing the list or the available options for merchants in terms of what they can sell. I honestly find myself only browsing Standard Units because it's fast, quick, and easy. I don't have time in the middle of a battle to switch from Merchant Dread - Standard Units to Merchant Ricky - Combo Units and say, oh no, he's sold out, quick, go to Merchant Q - Combo Units, damn it, nothing, but I need something and Dread had cheap things, back to Merchant Dread, oh wait I'm in combo units, and then switch to Standard Units.


I believe I did minimize options by a considerable deal to what it could have been in my initial plans for the conception of the map.

So far, the closest I could do without screwing half of the map's triggers is to packup every unit type into "units" and every research type into "research".

I can also say that warlords SHOULD say what they want and not magically hope that merchants will make something they might like. I even put ally chat only from warlords to merchants (without other warlords hearing) and merchants to warlords (without other merchants hearing) on purpose for that.

In theory, some could say to have one big list to show everything at the lowest price of every merchant at once.

Unfortunately, it has some considerable drawbacks. First of all, merchants would be forced to always undercut each other by 1% down to 101-105% (non-C&F) just so that it is their wares that get sold over his competitor. It might sound fine for warlords but for merchants, that's a recipe to screw over their business badly with such low profit and kill any potential "loyality" from a customer towards a merchant.

Finally, each merchant also have different sending delays. How can you truly pick between the fastest merchant yet is pricey, some more balanced (sending time & price) or slowest but is also the cheapest?

Worse, do you start showing different "best" prices/delays combo for each case along with buttons? If so, it only needs 5 different unit types from 3 different merchants with different maxes to fill the list rather than 15 units.


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