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Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:01 am
by Taeradun
I remember downloading Wargy's installation edit years ago and I'm pretty sure I still have it burnt on CD somewhere, but I couldn't find the disc this afternoon so it's probably in storage :(

so wait the one used in RCX's campaigns had additional modifications on top of Wargiant's original edit, specific to those campaigns? Unless RCX has Wargiant's original somewhere you could just ask him (+ whoever else if someone did the additional modding for him) if you can just use his one from his campaigns?

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:26 am
by HelpMe
PM'd him just now. Hopefully he'll answer soon. :)

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:45 am
by Pr0nogo
I think both communities have their ups and downs. I prefer CC because it's smaller, so everyone knows everyone and we all know the basics of what to expect. CC does need some resource updates to the main page, though.

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 am
by Thalraxal
I've got a copy, somewhere. It's just jumbled into a campaign mod I made, but I'm not sure if it's on my hardrive, or on a backup CD 372km away from my current location. I've been doing some digging, but not luck yet.

Taeradun wrote:I remember downloading Wargy's installation edit years ago and I'm pretty sure I still have it burnt on CD somewhere, but I couldn't find the disc this afternoon so it's probably in storage :(

so wait the one used in RCX's campaigns had additional modifications on top of Wargiant's original edit, specific to those campaigns? Unless RCX has Wargiant's original somewhere you could just ask him (+ whoever else if someone did the additional modding for him) if you can just use his one from his campaigns?


RCX added the creep textures to his version.

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:13 am
by Pr0nogo
If that's all that was changed, we could theoretically just remove those ones, right? Replace them with the originals?

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:29 am
by Thalraxal
Arg. I can safely say that I don't have a copy of the campaign mod in question with me, unless I hid it really, really well. Although I'm not sure why I'd do that. I've got a copy of that campaign's sequel's mod sitting on my desktop, but I didn't use Wargiant's Improved Installation terrain in that one so it's entirely unhelpful.

Might be worthwhile asking Lavarinth about it though. I'm pretty sure that it was originally hosted over on Gameproc, and if anyone has a giant pile of old Gameproc files, it'd be Lav.

Pr0nogo wrote:If that's all that was changed, we could theoretically just remove those ones, right? Replace them with the originals?


By default, installation terrain has no textures for Creep, it appears as a black void. In fact, if you just import Creep textures from another terrain, it can't even display them properly (it lacks the pallette colours for that). RCX made it so it would display something that at least looked Creep-like. Removing those sounds like a whole lot of extra work for something you'd still want to get RCX's permission to do. It is kind of rude to lift something out of someone else's MPQ files without asking them afterall.

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:56 pm
by HelpMe
PM'd Lavarinth as well. While that might be a bit redundant, the sooner I get my hands on this material, the better. And like Pr0 said it will also benefit other contestants (or at least Taeradun off the top of my head, since he's doing cyberpunk and all).

I appreciate the effort, Thalraxal, even if you couldn't find it. And yeah, I guess I shouldn't touch RCX's files just yet, if simply out of principle. Even though technically I wouldn't be taking any of his personal work. Well it doesn't hurt to be prudent.

I'll just keep doing my stuff until I get an answer from someone.

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:45 pm
by Taeradun
nah I'm not planning on using the default installation tileset, gonna roll my own :)

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:38 pm
by Lavarinth
I suggested contacting Meta.

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:47 am
by HelpMe
PM'd Meta. Looks like I'll have to bother the entire CC staff to get this thing.

EDIT: got an answer from RCX. He says that Wargiant's tool doesn't work anymore. Maybe because of OS compatibility?

Anyway I wasn't really counting on this material so things will just proceed as planned. Expect another micro-update in two days or so (and more of my endless rants).

EDIT 2: the terrain for mission 1 is undergoing a little refurbishing (I'm kind of a perfectionist when it comes to terrain). I was hoping to finish it by the 15th but I won't be done until the 20th. The bright side is, if I can pull a decent 256x256 installation map, what could possibly be more difficult than that?

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:13 pm
by HelpMe
Ok, I said there would be another preview on the 20th, so here's one more image for those who are interested.

Image

As you can see, the idea is to have a transportation system indoors; I didn't want to have teleporting beacons, since that's been used in many previous maps of various authors. I know the concept of roads isn't exactly original either, but from my perspective it hasn't been really exploited in installation maps. My objective is to have vultures cruising through these roads, which would be the preferred method of travelling inside the Academy. Of course, you can also walk if you so choose (or if you don't have a vulture) and for that I've included a few pedestrian passages for you to cross at certain points -- you can see one at roughly the center of the image.

I'm sure you've noticed the small plants here and there; a little green goes a long way in making the place more alive, and they're also cheery ornaments to lighten up the surroundings a bit. I think stuff like this adds a somewhat realistic touch to the setting.

I haven't finished the terrain as of yet -- not just because the map is so big, but also because the whole thing is like a jigsaw puzzle, and sometimes it's tricky to fit the parts together. However, I'm quite satisfied with how it's turning out, and I'm certain that the extra time it takes to add all those details and seemingly unimportant stuff will pay off in the end.

Finally, let me add that I won't be revealing any more images of the first mission, since that would be spoiling too much. The next update might take a while but will hopefully include an in-game display of the characters and their interactions. Look forward to it! :D

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:15 am
by Ling666
Teleporters are overdone, sure. But have you considered elevators? =P You can achieve interesting effects with triggers. I remember doing it once... but I forget how it was done or how well it turned out.

Other than that, looks pretty cool. I'm a great fan of the installation tileset.

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:09 am
by HelpMe
To anyone who's been following this up, I apologize for not offering a proper update at this time. In case you're wondering what the hell is taking so long, let me take this opportunity to share some thoughts about one of my main inspirations, and how it affects my work.

Some years back, I was reading an interview with Auspex Turmalis just a few months before the release of Antioch Chronicles: Episode II. He described some of the things he wanted to achieve, and the one that really stuck with me was how he talked about the environments. In particular, he mentioned the "Bora Dalis Spaceport", which would be the backdrop for one of the missions. I can't recall his exact words, but it was something like "It will be a living, breathing place, instead of just throwing in some buildings here and there and calling it a spaceport". And boy, did he mean every word of it. Bora Dalis was a tremendous eye-opener for me, both as a SC player and mapper. It contained a sprawling setting with well-defined ideas and numerous little touches. Its 256x256 glory really communicated the impression of a larger-than-life locale, a detailed and thriving world teeming with its denizens. Sometimes I would cruise through its pathways with no real intent, just looking at the scenery and the random characters going about their business. And I would think, "this is so cool". To this day I've never experienced anything that compares to it in any other campaign.

That, my friends, is exactly what I'm trying to achieve with the first mission of my campaign. I want the player to be impressed, immersed and even intimidated by it. And pulling this off takes time. For instance, some sections of the map were redone until I felt they had a minimal amount of "wow factor" to them; even if they're not exactly groundbreaking, they should at least make an impression on you. Story-wise, I'm making an effort to add several little verbal exchanges that are acessory to the main route -- for me, it makes no sense to be in a huge place if you only interact with 2 or 3 characters. So there will be brief conversations and comments for the sole purpose of fleshing out the world and its inhabitants.

All of this may sound like a lot, and I'm just realizing it is, really. So bear with me here and you'll be rewarded when the time comes. :)

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Ling666 wrote:Teleporters are overdone, sure. But have you considered elevators? =P You can achieve interesting effects with triggers. I remember doing it once... but I forget how it was done or how well it turned out.


There will be something like that, yes, although I wouldn't call it an elevator, since that implies vertical movement. More like going through a door and winding up in another place.

Other than that, looks pretty cool. I'm a great fan of the installation tileset.


Thanks. When the units are placed it will surely look more alive. I too like installation maps, for their atmosphere especially. Installation, Space Platform and Ice World are my favorites. :]

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:40 am
by IskatuMesk
HelpMe wrote:He described some of the things he wanted to achieve, and the one that really stuck with me was how he talked about the environments.


I'm a little confused, here. I thought all of this was always implied when mapping? I mean, you always want your map to look functional and realistic, right? I thought this was the goal for every mapper, especially those making campaigns, when designing their terrain and such. I guess I was wrong.

To this day I've never experienced anything that compares to it in any other campaign.


That's disappointing, really.

Re: [BW] The Malice of Diamonds

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:56 am
by Pr0nogo
Yeah, Newrand Citadel had better moments.
I find TAC one and two to be rather... shoddy, at this point. They, like Fall From Grace, haven't aged well.