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Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:16 am
by Myk
IskatuMesk wrote:Myk, I'd expect you least of all to ask something like that. What have we been doing all these years, exactly? :P


So, by way of question, you're saying that there's still stuff to edit outside of the maps which come with a giant editor that nobody wants to use. Or something.


Ponies.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:07 pm
by IskatuMesk
I dunno man, I'd think stuff like the BWAILauncher and all of the stuff Baja's worked on over the years constitutes outside of maps seeing as they aren't restricted to any single map...

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:48 pm
by Lavarinth
But what in SC2 so far?

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:36 am
by GreatGodSajuuk
Yeah man I mean why use mods when you can customize any map to use the same data pack you pre-made, You then can have as many maps as you... Oh wait, no you can have like 5 and then you can't have anything else yourself.

Seriously anything that could ever get you around the ludicrous publishing limit is good. So mods are good and needed.
Also with current limits no map could even come close to a proper mod.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:43 am
by IskatuMesk
Lavarinth wrote:But what in SC2 so far?


wat

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:15 am
by chris
Give it up already guys, blizzard has been activisionized.
Valve is the only decent and loyal company left in the PC video game business.

IskatuMesk wrote:Are you trying to look like a moron or does this just come natural to you? I'm starting to think it's the latter.

It's neither. It's blind fanboyism.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:34 pm
by Alevice
What do you expect in a starcraft 2 mod, given your definition, mesk? The definition of a current sc2 mod seems fitting enough, although I wish you could load maps with a mod without explicitely making it depndent of said mod. But that can be eventualy fixed, not that I would worry much if it doesnt.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm
by IskatuMesk
Alevice wrote:although I wish you could load maps with a mod without explicitely making it depndent of said mod.


Ba-dum-tish. You got it girlfriend.

By environmental definition the current mod system is a campaign system because it works like wc3's campaign system. Maps having to be dependent on the mod for it to work instantly excludes it from the definition of a mod. Especially since the mods also cannot effect the main menu and such.

Also, arbitrary size restrictions.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:19 pm
by Alevice
At this point, i really don't give a shit if a mod edits the start screen and such, anyway.

Last I recall, no one plays 2fort on CS:S.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:35 pm
by IskatuMesk
Well it's nice to have for sense of completion. If, for example, I had AO2, I'd like to edit the main menu screen to include AO-specific art, music, and other such assets. It would complete the feeling. Total conversions and all.

Obviously the whole true mod environment is something most mappers wouldn't give two shits about because they never consider to make a global-level project. This kind of a project really diminished in wc3 because of its map-friendly mod-hostile system. On the other hand, with games like Diablo 2 and Age of Wonders 2 and even UT*, TC's are commonday and stuff like this is very average and realistic to think of.

What hurts sc2 is not the fact that they don't natively support these mods but that they will ban you for changing the patch mpqs in the first place.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:56 am
by Alevice
IskatuMesk wrote:Well it's nice to have for sense of completion. If, for example, I had AO2, I'd like to edit the main menu screen to include AO-specific art, music, and other such assets. It would complete the feeling. Total conversions and all.


Yeah, fair enough. Since total coversions are far from my priority I guess that's why I am not bothered by such.

The ideal comprimosie would be tat you could preload a mod on startup via command line parameters or a simple mod loading menu a la DoW1.

IskatuMesk wrote:Obviously the whole true mod environment is something most mappers wouldn't give two shits about because they never consider to make a global-level project. This kind of a project really diminished in wc3 because of its map-friendly mod-hostile system. On the other hand, with games like Diablo 2 and Age of Wonders 2 and even UT*, TC's are commonday and stuff like this is very average and realistic to think of.


While there is validity to whta you say, your examples work way too differently to an RTS to compare. Interestigly, wc3 wasn't as mod hostile as people would like to claim, but barely any preloaded mod gained interest, due to the fatc that you could have custom assets and objetcs within a single map/campaign.

IskatuMesk wrote:What hurts sc2 is not the fact that they don't natively support these mods but that they will ban you for changing the patch mpqs in the first place.


My proposal of mod preloading through command line parameters could solve that. You could even get rid of the Liberty mod if you didnt use it at all.

Re: Define "Cheating" In StarCraft 2

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:05 am
by IskatuMesk
Ideally it would work as you suggest or through a mod menu like any given recent game of such nature.

Although maps can contain assets they are always arbitrarily restricted in size. You will never see a map with the kind of content we threw around in BW, for example.