Warlords and Merchants Discussion

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IskatuMesk
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:51 pm

Unfortunately syncing stuff like me balancing and ricky adding whatever is a big enough of a pain in the ass that I know he won't go for it.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Vetraeus » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:45 am

Give him the map!
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:13 pm

Changes made for the next FFS :
1) Camera's Farclip is now 150 (from SC2's 400) in an attempt to minimize lag video-wise.
2) Defense Structures can be upgraded to have 2x or 3x Life/Shields.
3) Siege Cruiser's costs now 1200/400/8 (from 1000/600/12). Also now a Lv3 Elite (from Lv4).
4) Merchant's W/A researches have +6 minutes time/level (from 4).
5) Elite - Yggdrasil no longer mass select with normal overlords.
6) Giant Baneling can no longer be transported.
7) Giant Baneling now splash allied units which can potentially cause chain reactions.
8) Giant Baneling was shifted to Combo Lv4 (from Lv2).
9) All scourges including Combo now deal 110 base damage.
10) Combo Scourges lost their splash. Bane Scourge removed.
11) Charging Scourges shifted from Lv3 to Lv2 Combo.
12) Phantom Scourges shifted from Lv5 to Lv4 Combo.
13) Combo Scourges have lowered costs.

Some side notes :
A) Yes, I know that Zerg 2x and 3x defense structures have some actor glitches.
B) With 2x-3x Life/Shields structures available, the Siege Barrage will probably become a must-have Elite unit against turtle players.
C) A dying Giant Baneling WILL kill very nearby Giant Banelings which will explode as well, etc. Giant Banelings have to be carefully manipulated now.
D) The Farclip thing seems to have worked for FockeWolf's WW2 map which made his laggy map much more bearable. It could work considerably for W&M as well. Note that it will obviously won't solve any pathfinding lag.
E) Defense Structures for 2x/3x : Bunker, Missile Turrets, Photon Cannons, Spore Crawler and Spine Crawler. No, I didn't poke that fire burrow Terran structure about it.

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Bishotron
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Bishotron » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:20 pm

BAH!

you should REALLY considering adding the flame turret Ricky. It would change the whole WM Paradigm!!!

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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:33 pm

Bishotron wrote:BAH!

you should REALLY considering adding the flame turret Ricky. It would change the whole WM Paradigm!!!


Perphas at some point.

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IskatuMesk
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:29 am

I'm trying to figure out why you lowered the cost of a unit that costed like 15 minerals and 70 gas to begin with.

Curious to see how the defenses will play out now. Still expecting mass air death to phantom scourge but at least the shielded carriers will have much more of a chance.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Vetraeus » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:32 am

Still needs Missile turrets to hit ground.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Bishotron » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:51 am

Oh dear god, if you made Missile turrets able to hit ground as well as Air, mang, everyone would go from playing protoss to Terran. Seeing as Turrets don't need pylons. Damn that would rock.

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IskatuMesk
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:28 am

Cannons have those shields, though.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Mucky » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:17 am

Instead of giving Missile Turrets the ability to attack ground, which would be monumentally retarded, I think Terran should get a mini-PF of some sort. 2x2 or 3x3 structure that basically looks like a Tank turret glued onto a supply depot. The main appeal is that its placement isn't restricted by nearby resources like the PF is. Ideally, bunkers filled with units would fulfill this role... but the supply cost for that makes it impractical.

These changes are awesome, by the way. Looking forward to the 2x/3x stats for defense.

P.S. I disagree with Bishotron; flame turrets suck and should be scrapped. Nobody wants a defense structure that requires the enemy to walk into them to do anything. Doesn't it cost gas too? Yeah, fuck that, mang.

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IskatuMesk
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:20 am

I like the mini PF idea more, yes.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Vetraeus » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:15 pm

How about this, a Auto-Turret, that has a Prismatic Beam, or wait, lets stop making more crap and fix the current crap we have before adding more crap. A good way of dealing with this crap would be to remove most of this crap, for example, All of the current combo units because they are redundant.
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IskatuMesk
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:17 pm

let's remove vespene geysers
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:23 am

I believe the current version of the terrain is quite solid, save apparently some rocks on one of the bases that is not ling tight but I'm not worried about that stuff anymore.

I've said all I can say about this map and the elements involved with it. I've presented numerous educational sources, explaining the concepts and mechanics behind why things just aren't working the way Ricky had hoped for them to work. Instead I am ignored and completely unrelated actions are made.

As much as I consider Ricky a friend I think he has a great deal to learn with map design and balancing, and I hope that through W&M he is able to better his understanding of these elements. I have said all I am willing to say to closed doors. With that, I respectfully withdraw my participation for a duration once more.

Good luck Mr. Frenchie. I hope you one day consider the things I've said.
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Re: Warlords and Merchants Discussion

Postby Vetraeus » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:13 am

Basic Concept of the map's current condition: Baneling/Scourge/Hellion
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