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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:10 am
by Alevice
The one I liked was the Lurker boss, that one was fun to fight more than once. It felt something like a Zelda type boss, which is good in my book.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:27 am
by johnnythewolf
DrumsofWar wrote:Way to misinterpret and not read everything after the first sentence. Simple triggers are native to pretty much every RTS editor - it was the advanced stuff which gave Brood War a 10 year lifetime and condemned all the Red Alerts and Age of Empires to the graveyard after 2 to 3.


I did read your stuff; you however obviously didn't read mine because your answer was completely irrelevant and basically just an excuse for yet another rant.

I basically praised Blizzard's triggerwork for being far more intuitive and easy to understand than expected. I didn't say anything about the in-game results, which, if you ask me, are anything BUT simplistic. In fact, when it comes to RTS, I think their scripted events are among the most effective I've seen.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:28 am
by IskatuMesk
lol what you mean the computer a-moving tiny bundles of units into your bases? nothing intuitive about the campaign at all I'm afraid. Johnny, you must have the lowest standards imaginable.

Alevice wrote:The one I liked was the Lurker boss, that one was fun to fight more than once. It felt something like a Zelda type boss, which is good in my book.


err no that one was just as bad as the rest. The boss had a few more abilities but it still was dragged on needlessly long and the fight did not change at all during this period. There was no mechanics to it, just "dodge this aoe".

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:45 pm
by Alevice
What? The boss fight I played consisted on forcing to unburrow the Lurker guy by using the psi disrupter, whihc would also stuns him for a short time. You had to evade his standard attack and a spine nova attack, in addition to evade a couple of roach mobs, who could burrow, move to your position and unburrow right below you, knocking you back.

The battle was actually short, using stim pakcs you killed him by unburrow/stun him 4 times.

It was actually much better than many game bosses I have played.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:09 pm
by IskatuMesk
Perhaps different than the one I saw which lasted around 5-8 minutes.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:57 pm
by johnnythewolf
Well, lookie here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FnsVcGE-64

Looks like there's hope for the Galaxy Editor after all! :lol:

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:56 pm
by IskatuMesk
nothing new there bro

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:01 pm
by DrumsofWar
johnnythewolf wrote:I did read your stuff; you however obviously didn't read mine because your answer was completely irrelevant and basically just an excuse for yet another rant.

I basically praised Blizzard's triggerwork for being far more intuitive and easy to understand than expected. I didn't say anything about the in-game results, which, if you ask me, are anything BUT simplistic. In fact, when it comes to RTS, I think their scripted events are among the most effective I've seen.


You still didn't read my "rant" at all despite the fact that I was trying to be conciliatory. The "triggerwork" and the results are all pretty standard even if much better looking, but it's the community that keeps a game going and right now it's being held back.

Since you don't seem to read past one sentence, I'll keep it down to one. Starcraft 1 only flourished when Blizzard left it alone and it stopped caring enough for other people to push the engine to its limits to create content that kept it going for half a decade.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:03 pm
by IskatuMesk
sc1 flourished because its tool devs weren't total dumbshits

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:01 pm
by johnnythewolf
DrumsofWar wrote:You still didn't read my "rant" at all despite the fact that I was trying to be conciliatory. The "triggerwork" and the results are all pretty standard even if much better looking, but it's the community that keeps a game going and right now it's being held back.


Yes, I read your stupid rant from start to finish, and I still don't see your point, other than hijacking my comment for yet another opportunity to take a stab at Evil Blizzard. Conciliatory with yourself, you mean!

You may enjoy overcomplicated triggerwork, but I don't and neither do aspiring mapmakers.

Since you don't seem to read past one sentence, I'll keep it down to one. Starcraft 1 only flourished when Blizzard left it alone and it stopped caring enough for other people to push the engine to its limits to create content that kept it going for half a decade.


Hum... no? Pre-BW SC1's triggers were rather... primitive, for the most part. Too bad, with BW, Blizzard couldn't help but ruin it with totally pointless triggers that certainly didn't benefit advanced scripting. Grrr! >:(

But in all seriousness, you SC2 haters' attempts at being counterproductive will never cease to amaze. The last thing I expected when I joined Campaign Creations was to have some of the top members actively trying to discourage content creation out of bitterness. You'd think that together we could all try to figure out how to work with the editor's limits, just like we did with SC1 and other games with even shittier customization potential, and improve the game with our own creations.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:11 pm
by The Oracle
A campaign doesn't require anything that pushes the envelope. Just a good story and fun game-play, neither of which is complex or heavily trigger intensive. Throw some cinematic scenes in there...okay that's a bit more trigger intensive but still...well within the bounds of the editor as it is right now...today.

My only gripe (see, I do have one) is that because the art tools aren't available, any new graphics which go into LotC will lack particles and ribbons via the existing player made import tool, leaving them less than they could be. It's a shame that I can't tap the potential of the editor graphics wise. But trigger wise, no problem.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:27 pm
by RazorclawX
johnnythewolf wrote:But in all seriousness, you SC2 haters' attempts at being counterproductive will never cease to amaze.


Most of them haven't published a campaign.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:06 pm
by Krazy
RazorclawX wrote:Most of them haven't published a campaign.


Seems like some of the people who've made some of the campaigns are more annoyed by publication issues (upload limits to the cloud servers) rather than editor issues with actually making the maps.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:31 am
by IskatuMesk
and I still don't see your point


I don't think you see any point. It's hard for fanboys to communicate when they are so naive.

Just a good story and fun game-play, neither of which is complex or heavily trigger intensive


Yes but you forget that virtually no one is capable of either. SC2 inherited wc3 nobodies and then just nobodies. Do you have what it takes, I wonder? You're probably the only one who has the capacity to step up to that challenge that would actually finish it. Throwing money around really simplifies such work. Why, I could pay fanboys to map for me if I had some green. That would just let me avoid all of the annoyances of the editor altogether.

Seems like some of the people who've made some of the campaigns are more annoyed by publication issues (upload limits to the cloud servers) rather than editor issues with actually making the maps.


Don't sweat it, as soon as they get into making the campaign they would regret it, especially if they were accustomed to the layout of proper, well-thought out editors like sc1's.

/edit

You'd think that together we could all try to figure out how to work with the editor's limits, just like we did with SC1 and other games with even shittier customization potential, and improve the game with our own creations.


You see bro, this is where your argument takes such a tumble down to the points of absurdity because you positively refuse to read and communicate. You just assume we're all "haters" and are out to get you. Almost all of us have actually used the editor. The differences between SC2 and SC1 is that in SC1 we had tool developers who communicated with us and worked to better their tools, thus improving our experiences with them. In Sc2 we have nothing but a half-assed piece of shit and a company who doesn't even know what a mod is much less planned ahead like anyone who genuinely supports custom content would.

The "art tools" are just a 3ds max plugin, one they already have and are already using, there is no excuse for it not being available yet, and certainly no excuse for a LoTV release estimate!

And that is why we are so angry.

Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:00 pm
by DrumsofWar
Alevice wrote:What? The boss fight I played consisted on forcing to unburrow the Lurker guy by using the psi disrupter, whihc would also stuns him for a short time. You had to evade his standard attack and a spine nova attack, in addition to evade a couple of roach mobs, who could burrow, move to your position and unburrow right below you, knocking you back.

The battle was actually short, using stim pakcs you killed him by unburrow/stun him 4 times.

It was actually much better than many game bosses I have played.


Try Dungeon: Guardians of Fire. That has a pretty good boss fight setup.