SC2 Campaigns?

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IskatuMesk
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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:48 pm

johnnythewolf wrote:The lack of local hosting is a very convenient excuse. The STALKER series is infamous for its lack of a proper SDK release as well as its reliance on workarounds in order to play mods. Yet, despite the half-assed tools, the buggy and cumbersome engine and other infuriating limitations, the community has managed to release lots of kickass mods and, more recently, custom maps.


You haven't the faintest idea of what you're talking about. You aren't grasping at straws, you're grasping at nothing because you don't even know what straws to grasp at. Save yourself the continued humiliation and stop posting. These two games aren't even REMOTELY comparable for a simple fact that seems to repeatedly escape your empty skull.
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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby Legion » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:12 pm

johnnythewolf wrote:That is, if you use hacks and third-party tools. Using F9 or Drag 'N Dropping a map file on SC2.exe shouldn't be illegal, AFAIK, or Blizzard would not have allowed it in the first place. In fact, it works pretty much like SC1's UMS system, if not better, as it gives you direct access to the map instead of forcing you to go all the way to the Custom Mission Menu. It'll have to do until Blizz comes up with a proper campaign hosting service, but hey, I've seen worse workarounds.

Alternatively, if you're too afraid that Blizzard bans you for whatever reason, just do like me, The Oracle and DjBaker: focus on making your campaign first, then worry about publishing later.


You're right about that last part. However, I do think that many people would like some assurance before they actually do all the work involved in making a good campaign. Plus, if the fact that Blizzard has sort of disabled campaign distribution among third-parties is any indication, I don't think we'll see a satisfactory solution anytime soon.

Blizzard may have said in the past that they applaud the communities for creating custom content, but all their recent decisions concerning this phenomenon indicate that they actually hate it. I don't know about their reasoning behind it. Could be they want to rush through the next two instalments before they actually want to gives us more freedom, thereby attempting to make sure we actually get the next two. Could also be they don't want Starcraft to be anything other than just an online game anymore at all. Their lack of attention to story/character development in the first of the three would indicate that - but that's just speculation born of frustration. :)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, just like some others here: SC2 is clearly not like SC1... in a bad way. It feels rushed and it clearly wasn't made for the SC1 fans. It's an entirely different thing and we better get used to it.

My prediction's that Starcraft 1 survives Starcraft 2.


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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby johnnythewolf » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:36 pm

Well, clearly, if they were actively against custom content creation, Blizzard wouldn't have given the fans access to the Galaxy Editor in the first place. They even went as far as hyping it as an integral part of the game.

Granted, Blizzard tried to tackle too many things at once, hence the Battle.Net 2.0 debacle. They appear to be aware that they kinda screwed up though, as they have included lots of fixes and additional functionalities for the editor through patches and probably will keep doing that 'till they and/or the fans (at least most of them) are satisfied with it.

In any case, considering the time it takes to make a solid, polished campaign, Blizzard taking its time to fix the campaign hosting issues should be the least of the mapmakers's worries. That's the way of The Oracle... >:D
Last edited by johnnythewolf on Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby Legion » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:46 pm

johnnythewolf wrote:Well, clearly, if they were actively against custom content creation, Blizzard wouldn't have given the fans access to the Galaxy Editor in the first place, arguably one of the most powerful map editors on the market. They even went as far as hyping it as an integral part of the game.


To make multiplayer maps that are bland and restricted. That's more of an investment in their online business than it is in the custom creation fanbase. That, to me, is the big difference. We were led to believe this integral part of the game was what the original fanbase had spent years to create for Starcraft 1: a user-friendly, powerful tool to craft beautiful free products. Instead they gave you a horrible tool and some nasty restrictions, effectively incapacitating the entire custom content community.

Edit:
Your argument that mapmakers shouldn't worry about this problem because it's unlikely they have anything of value to release anyway is completely irrelevant. The fact that it's impossible now to release a solid, polished campaign says enough. By the time people like Oracle finish their campaigns, maybe there is a way to release it properly, who knows. Is Blizzard deliberately delaying their support, just so we can take the time to be more creative? That's smart.
Last edited by Legion on Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby johnnythewolf » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:56 pm

Like most naysayers, you are obviously not getting your hands dirty with the Galaxy Editor nowadays. For shame!

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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby Legion » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:05 pm

johnnythewolf wrote:Like most naysayers, you are obviously not getting your hands dirty with the Galaxy Editor nowadays. For shame!


Mine hasn't changed.

I'm not a naysayer, I'm just no yaysayer either. All I'm saying is, if they could do it ten years ago, why not now?


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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby johnnythewolf » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:34 pm

I told you: they tried to tackle too many things things at once and that backfired. That kind of things happen all the time when people tries to make something different.

And for a "no yaysayer", you are pretty quick to assume the worst about everything. I'm sure the few mappers who are actually trying to make something good instead of just sitting on their ass and complain really do appreciate your kind words of encouragement.

Because yes, it is possible to make a solid, polished campaign as of now, and get people to play it (the F9 and the Drag 'N Drop tricks). I know, I'm working on one! :]

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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby UntamedLoli » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:33 pm

All of us have been making things far longer than your miniscule month at most you've been at it so keep sticking your head in the sand and yelling "EVERYTHING WILL BE ALRIGHT.", SC2 has the problems it has now because the team behind it has no concern at all in the communities interests.

9+ years and they have shit all to show for it, theres no improvements over WC3 once you get your head out of your ass past the graphics and pathing.

There is no valid excuses for majority of the bad decisions.

You probably aren't even aware that you can do anything trigger and data related with notepad in a fraction of the time it would take their bloated editor.

That's right, a text editor is more powerful than GE.

Making use of functionality intended for testing maps that doesn't even function the same as the normal game isn't a workaround, it's bending over and taking it in the ass.

There's also no "trick" about it.

tl;dr

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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby Alevice » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:27 pm

Hunter_Killers wrote:Making use of functionality intended for testing maps that doesn't even function the same as the normal game isn't a workaround, it's bending over and taking it in the ass.


lolwut

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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby The Oracle » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:33 pm

@ All: You guys; the map editor can do anything you want it to do. It can do a campaign or SC2's version of Bejeweled or Missile Command or Tower Defense maps or, again, Campaigns.

The only thing you can't do is publish a campaign on Battle.net or connect the maps with triggers. Small limitation that's likely temporary. Write your story; make your maps. People will play your campaign regardless of the above.

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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby UntamedLoli » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:52 pm

Alevice wrote:
Hunter_Killers wrote:Making use of functionality intended for testing maps that doesn't even function the same as the normal game isn't a workaround, it's bending over and taking it in the ass.


lolwut


lolya or we can just give Blizzard the idea this is perfectly ok, you don't really want linked/co-op campaigns do you?
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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby Alevice » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:30 pm

Not really, haha.

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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby IskatuMesk » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:13 pm

johnnythewolf wrote:Like most naysayers, you are obviously not getting your hands dirty with the Galaxy Editor nowadays. For shame!


Man are you dumb and ignorant. Do some fucking research before making comments. I thought I told you to stop making a fool out of yourself?

Because yes, it is possible to make a solid, polished campaign as of now, and get people to play it (the F9 and the Drag 'N Drop tricks). I know, I'm working on one! :]


I don't see polished shit coming out of you. Put out or shut up. I'm going to ask to get you banned if you keep spouting this bullshit. I haven't seen a single screenshot out of anyone besides Oracle on this forum that looks anything half as basic as the generic WoL maps. And even then Oracle's maps were scarcely barebones and obviously very early in. I hope you realize you've set yourself up with the obligation to actually make something really fucking good. You better deliver before you make another post like this.

I'm sure the few mappers who are actually trying to make something good instead of just sitting on their ass and complain really do appreciate your kind words of encouragement.


Yet again you are incorrect. Do some research. I have yet to run across someone who's used the editor who actually likes it. Oracle is just putting on a face because of how much money he's throwing at this. He has to stomach the pain. He can't throw away that kind of an investment because he was already balls-deep into it before he realized how much of a trainwreck the game was going to be. Other people are hopeless fanboys like you thinking the editor is god's gift because they are too stupid or clueless to understand how much of a trainwreck it is. This will settle in after they spend an exorbitant amount of time working on the most basic features of a map carried in this vain constitution before they finally ragequit. Or if they try do something like I did; you know, make an FPS/TPS map much less a campaign. That's a good way to instantly lose faith in the game as a whole.

Learn to troll or stop wasting our time.

That kind of things happen all the time when people tries to make something different.


I'm sorry, who's trying something different here? That's right, no one! The editor and the game have absolutely nothing new in them. SC2's engine is at the very least five years out of date, and virtually every single thing contained in GE has been done in user-made tools for Starcraft 1 in 1/8 the development time with nowhere near the same level of carelessness, disorganization, and bugginess currently present and ignored by Blizzard. If you think this is going to somehow change I suggest you look at wc3 and reconsider that cock currently lodged in your throat. This is not doing something amazing and unheard of, this isn't some kind of revolutionary unexplored boundary, this is making something super simple that any college student skilled in programming could outperform in a week's notice.

With all of that said it is possible that a user-made tool can be made to parse the XML files in a far faster and more efficient manner than GE does. But, like Wc3, I highly doubt you'll ever see such a tool as anyone super skilled in that has long lost faith in the game or doesn't feel inclined to bother. One or two were being worked on in beta but they all went silent.
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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby RazorclawX » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:24 am

I made a conceptual vertical shooter out of SC2 and after that I haven't the slightest idea what else I want to do with it, which boils down to nothing.
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Re: SC2 Campaigns?

Postby Eredalis » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:49 am

Come down, guys. It's just a game. :)
My assumption is, that the features for campaign support arrives together with Legacy of the void. In other words: When StarCraft II Trilogy is complete released. Until then, there is enough time to dive deep in the editor... with all his glory...

AND ALL HIS HORRORRRRR... :huwhaa:


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