Second Impressions

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Second Impressions

Postby Krazy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:28 pm

As more people are progressing past their first playthrough, I'm curious if when they come back to certain parts knowing the full story whether they focus on different things.

For one, General Warfield seems even weirder as a character now than at first. I didn't even realize he's the one who was in command of showing off the "Odin" but when you see him again it seems as though all that is completely forgotten. A lot of his dialogue is also just weird. "I don't know if it was blind luck or damn fool courage..." What the hell is damn fool courage?

I'm planning to do the 8 hour run today. Unfortunately I'm actually really sick so hopefully that won't mess it all up.

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Maglok » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:50 pm

First time I didnt catch Narud, I did the second time. :)
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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Legion » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:51 pm

Damn fool courage is... I don't know. Maybe it's wrong. Or maybe it's like this. Maybe Blizzard thought that "blind" can be both an adjective and a noun. According to their logic, "blind luck" is "luck of the blind". Maybe they thought the word "fool" was like that too. "Fool courage" would then be "courage of the fool".

Hmm. :s I think it's wrong, actually.

My second impressions are different from my first impressions, unsurprisingly.

When I first played it and messed around with the editor I thought the possibilities of this game were endless. Now I'm not so sure if SC2 even has as many possibilities as SC1.


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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Archangel » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:02 pm

SPOILERS BELOW!





See, this is the thing I don't get.

To me, nothing was secret in this game. You knew the bad guy was Tychus all along. You knew that, didn't you? The opening cinematic with Mengsk giving him the deal, then Tychus checking out the old archives "suspiciously" and then EVERYONE saying shit about him. In the end, I wanted him to NOT try and kill Kerrigan. I wanted him to actually EVOLVE as a character. Maybe even walk out of the Zerg cave with Mengsk yelling at him and then he tells Mengsk off with a witty one-liner and then Mengsk kills him - which is exactly what Tychus has accepted. BECAUSE SOME THINGS ARE WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

But noooooooo. No can't have character progression in THIS story. Can't have more than 2 dimensions for any one person for Metzen. What a sham. Tychus should have been the protagonist in this campaign, and we should have followed Raynor's quest through HIS eyes, not Raynor's. That would have been more compelling.

Warfield's the only southern black guy in the campaign, so I don't know how anybody could think he wasn't the same person running the Odin thing. When Raynor and him first go face to face in Valerian's BC, the tension's obviously there. And I'm pretty sure the whole "giant planet of monsters eating our space ships" came off as a bigger fish to fry than "Aw man, he stole my Odinator!" So I'll give them a pass. What I won't pass up is the WTF is the deal with Warfield's arm? If I'm not allowed to play as Warfield with his bazooka-hand, then what the hell do I care that he has it. This is supposed to be the last stand. Why am I not playing a Hero map with EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER? Hell, they even made units for Swan and BillNye.

I hate this campaign. Hate it with a firey burning passion. Zeratul's voice actor is the oldest pussy I've ever heard. Everything he says is so ridiculously overdramatized and excited. "THIS tentacle feels sorrow!" "I like yelling about stupid things in my headbrain!" "My older self was wise and mysterious, but the NEW me is just an excited jackrabit with a ninja mask!"

Raynor comes off as an asshole prick. He fake-chuckles at the beginning of almost all of his lines like a forgettably pretentious otaku cowboy. Never once does he try to actually REASON with his "OLD FRIEND WHO TOOK THE FALL FOR YOU AND NEVER RATTED YOU OUT, YOU UNBELIEVABLE FUCK." Rather, he settles for "I'm the hero of this goddamned game, so you STFU. Oh you want to kill my girlfriend who slaughtered worlds on a Tuesday, because you've got poison in your suit that will kill you if you don't and otherwise have no other vested interest in my piss party? Well fuck you, you're dead because my armor eats bullets like applesauce."

Raynor's not a hero because he's heroic. He's a "hero" because Metzen is telling you that he is.

They used up all of the potentially awesome interior missions on half-assed cut-scenes reminiscent of Arthas vs Ilidin. Hell, everyone raves about Zeratul vs Kerrigan and that had all of, what? A magic ball of bluegoo and Zeratul swings ONCE? That's so incredibly awesome.

The Protoss missions were just ridiculous. The acting was bad. The missions were uninspired. They should have saved that time for the Protoss expansion and developed more of the Terrans.

And speaking of expansions, you can see what faith I have in the future of this franchise right here: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=3283

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:36 pm

Archangel > Nooow you're getting it! Warfield was just all kinds of confusing. Why can't I blast dudes with his space marine gun arm? :(

Legion >

When I first played it and messed around with the editor I thought the possibilities of this game were endless. Now I'm not so sure if SC2 even has as many possibilities as SC1.


There are two sides to custom content in these games - Creation and Distribution. Each side has their own sides, consequently.

Creation;

* Tools

Starcraft has a variety of incredibly user-friendly and powerful tools that let you jump into virtually any aspect of the game besides ASM just like *snaps fingers* that. They take a while to master and I've forgotten most of what I know by now but they are there. They are for the most part bug-free and supported by their users. We didn't always have these tools (Frankly, Camsys' tools for the most part were terrible, bug-ridden and corrupted everything. Only Scaiedit 3.1 was really any good, and icecc/AZ). But for the past 5-6 years SC has had a golden age where there's competent tool makers.

Starcraft 2 doesn't have any of that. Its editor is a tumble down the evolutionary tree into the ground, where its grotesque bloat and weight has collapsed the planet's crust and sent it down to the burning abyss. It is not user-friendly, it is not intuitive and it doesn't do anything correctly that Worldedit and Staredit had hammered down just fine. GalaxyEdit is a gods-damned disaster in every sense of the term. It has power but only the few, the brave, will ever be able to break into it. All we see right now are, surprise surprise, zombie maps and dota clones - most of which you can't play over bnet for one reason or another.

* Accessibility

This is where sc2 shines. SC2 is capable of far more than any other RTS released to date because of the way its engine is built. The AI is largely open to play with, that alone is something I've never seen before. It has possibilities, it has power, but the way it's presented makes it impossible to access.

Distribution;

Brood War wins here once again because all you need to distribute a mod is a secwad. Run the exe, bam, mod. All of your changes across the game. Campaign? Your data's also included in a mod (take Mekani/Zeji for example, perfect example really). Maps can be external if they don't fit, that's fine. Rar em up, send em. User runs downgrader if he needs to (SCV Selector or Baja's downgrader), runs exe, runs maps. Bam, done. Two minute process at most for the end-user to get started.

SC2 falls apart completely on the distribution level. Battle.net 2.0 does not allow mods or campaigns currently. To run a mod you need to edit the base mpqs - bam, banned. Campaigns? You have to do it Ricky's way or not at all.

I'm sure HKS will give you an earful of the fun he's going through with their publishing system right now once he sees this thread.



This is practically a carbon copy remake of what happened with NWN2, except NWN2 was built on the first one's engine. Its editor was more powerful but far less intuitive to use and the online service was not nearly as good. The game's content community doesn't even come close to the original's as a result.
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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Xenon » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:53 pm

WHAT THE FUXXORZ. I can give up hope on the higher-difficulty achievements, finding out that the game speed is LOCKED ON FAST/FASTER ON HARD, AND FASTER ON BRUTAL.

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Falchion » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:16 pm

You know, people, when I see this, I have the custom of remembering Stephen King, foremost his preface to Dark Tower - The Gunslinger. Especially a line: "I understand this, but I admit I'm less concerned with them than the people who never met Roland and his ka-tet." He was referring, naturally, to the vets.

Maybe Blizzard's just applying this same philosophy. Once again, it's all in the name of the newbs...

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Krazy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:34 pm

Does anyone else have an issue with the game crashing, like, often? It's mostly in the campaign, most frequently at or around mission victory screens, of all things.

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Krazy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:35 pm

spoilers in the screenshot

Image

So how's this for bugs... apparently, either due to a joke or a glitch, you can only get up to 99% for single player achievements.

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Legion » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:17 am

Archangel wrote:...

I hate this campaign. Hate it with a firey burning passion. Zeratul's voice actor is the oldest pussy I've ever heard. Everything he says is so ridiculously overdramatized and excited. "THIS tentacle feels sorrow!" "I like yelling about stupid things in my headbrain!" "My older self was wise and mysterious, but the NEW me is just an excited jackrabit with a ninja mask!"

...

Raynor's not a hero because he's heroic. He's a "hero" because Metzen is telling you that he is.

...

The Protoss missions were just ridiculous. The acting was bad. The missions were uninspired. They should have saved that time for the Protoss expansion and developed more of the Terrans.


Totally agree. The new Zeratul is laughable. As for the other Protoss, it sounds like Blizzard isn't really interested in them anymore. It's like they were thinking, "Oh right, these were the guys we gave those echoey voices, right? They talk a little old fashioned? Yeah, I remember now. Let's do something like that again."

And Jimmy Raynor... Pffff! I can't even remember a time when the reluctant hero was cool. His pumped up body, his jokey mannerisms and the chip on his shoulder are getting really old really fast. I mean, a hipflask! REALLY?

I think it all comes down to poor writing. I can't believe Metzen said somewhere that he thought this was his greatest work because it isn't. I think he should drop the Rockstar Bono act and get his ass back to the drawing board. :P


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Re: Second Impressions

Postby tipereth » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:44 pm

Repost of my SC1 summary: (PS Starcraft had a retarded plot too, it just took itself more seriously)

Terran:
Confeds: OSHIT ZERG!
Mengsk: Sup I'm morally gray.
Kerrigan: OSHIT ZERG!

Zerg:
Overmind: AWAKEN MY CHILD AND EMBRACE YOUR BIRTHRIGHT BLAH BLAH BLAH
Kerrigan: SUP NIGS!
Daggoth: OSHIT ZERATUL!
Overmind: LOL AIUR

Protoss:
Aldaris: I'm not a dick.
Fenix: FUUUUUUUUUUUCK
Tassadar: Aldaris is a dick.
Fenix: THE KOALA IS MY STRENGTH
Aldaris: Sup my ideals conflict with my survival that isn't a cliche at all no sirree
Tassadar: FOR ALLAH

Protoss:
Aldaris: I fucked up
Zeratul: The zerg FOLLOWED US? WTF?
Razagal: LETS NUKE THEM BITCHES
Kerrigan: HOLLA!
Aldaris: Razagal is infested!
Kerrigan: nah

Terran:
Duran: lol I'm black.
DuGalle: Moi aussi.
Mengsk: I'm a good guy this time.
Overmind: LETS GET HIIIIIIIIGH

Zerg:
Kerrigan: I'm not gonna betray you.
Mengsk/Raynor/Fenix/Zeratul: k
Kerrigan: lol just kidding
AD INFINITUM

Fin

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:32 pm

lol I'm black.
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Re: Second Impressions

Postby superdoughboy4 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:09 pm

lol just kidding

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby Saint_Kerrigan » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:11 am

The worst decision that Blizz made storywise was to make Jim the playable character. Seriously, it's a hella lot cooler to play yourself and have people directly addressing you than to sit back and perform someone else's actions. It just downgrades the experience from immersion to point-n-click, and a rather slipshod one at that.

Making Kerrigan a good guy is the second worst decision they made, and I swear if they don't make Kerrigan backstab everyone in the next game...

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Re: Second Impressions

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:04 pm

Nothing they do with Kerrigan won't make this any worse.
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