Re: To all would-be SC2 mappers & modders:
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:37 pm
https://www.campaigncreations.org/forum/
https://www.campaigncreations.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3298
First off, I already noticed that you posted the SC2Mapster version of that article up on the Feedback thread. Thank you - like both of us have said, there's no guarantee it'll do a single whit of good, but I honestly believe acting now gives us the best chance of accomplishing something. Whether they only opened the feedback threads to centralize 'whining', or whether the enormous negative backlash by their playerbase has left Blizzard and the development teams reeling and vulnerable to timely suggestions, I and nobody else knows. But their moderators are doing something other than contributing on the forums, those threads exist, and so there's a chance they're listening and honestly evaluating their options, here.IskatuMesk wrote:You could have said that about chat channels, online replays, and other things missing in the beta... and they still aren't here, and may not ever be here. If they do come it will probably be with those expansions and used as feature bullet points.Not to mention, they sort of are obligated to do something about the Editor, and B.net 2.0 - because they have two more expansion packs to sell.
Point is, I've been told by the exact same guy who is now lead of sc2's editor back in wc3's hayday that Blizzard was aware of the numerous issues I had pointed out at the time and they won't ever fix them. The logic back then was that this would help prolong wc3's life, right? They just don't care.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=123080
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=127066
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=3085
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=3108
I don't care what you do. Feel free to take any parts of my posts or articles and rewrite them as you see fit. But I am through with pen-pushing faggots in their high seats ignoring the little guy. This feedback thread is no doubt just an attempt to force all of the whiners into one spot so their forum isn't such an eye-sore anymore.
/edit
This is a simplified version I posted on sc2mapster a while ago. I guess I can copy paste this into that thread in about five seconds... but I'm not putting any salt into such an action.
-snip- (By the by, I read all of this, along with the other articles you linked. As you've heard before, really, really great stuff.)
Thanks tremendously, man. You make a very good point, and I honestly and truly hope your name carries a bit of weight, as well as the CC name and its status. It means a lot to me that you'd contribute this way, and while, yeah, there's no telling if it'll ever do any good, the die is now cast, and it's always better to speak up than remain silent.Lavarinth wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic ... age=13#258
Back then replays only existed in strange and arcane ways like for Counter-strike, and even then I could never get the damned things to work. They probably arose by the demand of the Korean gaming scene.I mean, how many patches did it take Blizzard to add replays to the original SC? Wasn't it around 1.05 or 1.07 that they did that?
And it's entirely possible that SC2 will follow the same path - but it's not a guaranteed loss. If the Korean scene had a say in the inclusion of replays, originally, then I'm sure they will again, if SC2 catches on there (and with the KeSPa fiasco, I admit, it may not, but...) - Blizzard may make the same choice again. And while Warcraft 3 sold amazingly well, it didn't have the global community and attention SC2 has - not to mention, Blizzard might be dissatisfied with the way Warcraft 3 has eventually turned out, in the online realm, and might want to rectify this for obvious profit-reasons.IskatuMesk wrote:Back then replays only existed in strange and arcane ways like for Counter-strike, and even then I could never get the damned things to work. They probably arose by the demand of the Korean gaming scene.I mean, how many patches did it take Blizzard to add replays to the original SC? Wasn't it around 1.05 or 1.07 that they did that?
However, online replays was NEVER introduced for wc3 despite enormous backlash from removing it.
It wouldn't surprise me. I actually thought there were a lot of weird, experimental things about WC3 that I wasn't expecting. It does seem very distressing that, yeah, some of the biggest mistakes from there are making a return here, some even in exacerbated form, but my current hope is that there will be enough people saying "Blizz, That S&%^ Won't Fly" that the "pen-pushers" will realize it's true, and that the devs will be convinced to make changes...IskatuMesk wrote:I've been told that Blizzard treated wc3 as basically a test bed or an experiment. Which is kind of weird and I wasn't sure I should believe that, but it seems they're making all the exact same mistakes again - much more severely this time.
You're right, only time will tell. I'll be waiting and watching... making plans with my parrots... but no time soon shall I expect to see any hint of improvement.
Any suggestions? (On particular websites, that is. The means of making this happen are obviously up to me or anyone else seeking to do this.) Heck, I was actually looking around for other large communities of Starcraft players, and having a hard time finding those - the wider tech and gaming scene as a whole isn't one I've been closely involved in, in the last few years, so any pointers would be appreciated.Hunter_Killers wrote:TBH if you want to get Blizzard's attention start bringing it up with big tech/gaming websites to get a front page news post of how bad it actually is, every news post I've seen involving the editor has pretty much been sucking up to them.
Well, I mean, I'm not so sure, you know? Almost every other game I've ever played, and most of the mods I've worked on and communities I've been a part of, there've been international forums. The way most handled the confusion was to have clearly-marked regional sections, forums and subforums - usually divided by language, rather than nation, which both helped to organize things more coherently for everyone involved, and, in my eyes, lessened the loomin' spectre of nationalism that can sometimes flares up on the Internet.Maglok wrote:About EU region. Yes it is 'locked', it is a totally different version and I can only log into the EU forums. That is not that strange, or it would confuse the crap outta people.
Regardless I'd like some more mapping options for singleplayer plx!
I trundled over to SC2Mapster and buzzed the forums silently, trying to get a feel for the site and figure out who's in charge and who it'd be best to talk to about this sort of thing. I didn't have the best luck (their site layout is not exactly stellar, but they're new, so I'm sure it'll improve with time!) but I'm going to bum along to their IRC chat and see who I can talk to there about maybe getting a constuctively-critical news-post dedicated to the current downfalls inherent in the modding and mapping scene. Only in the spirit of feedback Blizz has engendered, of course, and for the elucidation and education of the average player.Lavarinth wrote:If SC2Mapster did a news post in relations to the negative sides of mapping, it'd garner attention. I make this conclusion simply since the community representatives instantly go to them for any map creation news for Facebook.