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SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:27 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
So this thread is more or less the successor of this one as SC2 became retail.

And now, ill start with one that is very important for campaign mapmakers.

How to have a campaign playable with "Set Next Map" triggers all without using the B.Net publishing features

Copy-pasted (and slightly modified) from viewtopic.php?f=76&t=3269&start=30#p41699

It was a pain to figure how the specifics of "Set Next Map" trigger works but I found out :

1) Any map that is chained towards to MUST be in your installed maps folder (ex : C:\Program Files\StarCraft II\Maps) instead of your documents map folder (ex : C:\Documents and Settings\Somebody\My Documents\StarCraft II\Maps).

2) Thus with that, it is possible to create some "map loader" map that can be opened in the editor and loaded via "Test Document". Said "Map loader" can be loaded in the editor from any path location.

This is probably the best way for campaign makers to have a campaign that does work the closest as conventionally done, without publishing while greatly minimizing the lack of publishing's drawbacks.

Also I apologize to Meta for sending a bit of a false information as I didn't understood it too well myself unless I truly found out myself. I honestly expected Blizzard would enforce publishing campaigns in every method possible.

Also posted some map test files about it as an attachment below.
Step 1) Extract all 3 files in C:\Program Files\StarCraft II\Maps (or whatever the equivalent on your OS)
Step 2) Open the map "Test - Test - Next Map - Menu Loading.SC2Map" in the editor and hit "Test Document" in the first menu.
Step 3) If you did Step #1 correctly, it will transition to your chosen map correctly.

EDIT :
To make it more obvious for Step #1, the path is NOT the usual path where maps are saved. That's where most people would make the mistake.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:08 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
As I poked in the editor, one of my project needs is to have at least specific unit-types to convert its actor, model, sounds, etc. to an existent one. This is mostly intended for "on-the-spot customization during gameplay" of units.

In all honesty, having 25+ unit-types just to allow 25+ different actor looks is a lot of waste of time.

Unfortunately, catalog triggers are mostly barred to do it in details. However, there is still a reasonable way I found around it ...

Those are set to be in this exact order.

//Kills previous actor
Actor - Send message "Destroy Immediate" to actor (Actor for ***Wanted Unit***)
//Attach new actor to unit
Actor - Attach ***New Actor*** to Origin on ***Wanted Unit***
//Allow actor's movement to match unit's speed and not stand still
//Note : Value MUST be -1 (as in AnimBlendTimeApply -1.000)
Actor - Send message "AnimBlendTimeApply" to actor of ***Wanted Unit***)

The drawbacks :
1) The base unit-type's trained sounds will be heard regardless of the unit to convert to. This is since the triggers only work after the unit itself is present. Also odds are, you will see whatever previous model briefly before your triggers kick in.

Fortunately for the base unit-type, you can probably use a model size of 0.01 model scale to make it barely seen

2) Due to an odd glitch for wireframes, you are basically forced to do a single actor switch to all units of the same unit-type you want to use to convert if you want to avoid this issue.

3) When the "modified" unit's actor dies, you hear both the previous actor's dying sound AND the current actor's dying sound.

So you will have to manually remove the dying sounds references from the base unit-type you want to do this to avoid this issue.

Ultimately due to the issues above, odds are you will have to make a dummy unit-type (still with some sort of actor and model).

Here's the map test attachment below and some screenshots
Test - Unit Actor Change.zip
(7.44 KiB) Downloaded 301 times
DeviantActorSwitch.PNG

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:39 pm
by Xenon
There's a "model swap" actor command, but of course it only changes the model, not the actor.

I wonder how well the map transition works in multiplayer, particularly regarding player order. It could in theory be possible to make a "map lobby" where a chat command would load a specified pre-downloaded map, but setting up games like this would not be feasible for the vast majority of bnet players due to there being no chat channels. :P

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:23 pm
by IskatuMesk
Xenon> I wonder if you can load a 100+ mb map that way.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:26 pm
by RazorclawX
Campaign Creations Standard Units Mod Version 1.03

Recreated spells and units... so you don't have to.

Refer to Defiler Bone Samples... for more details.

EDIT: Updated with test map and fix for Reaver.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:30 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
RazorclawX wrote:Campaign Creations Standard Units Mod

Recreated spells and units... so you don't have to.

Refer to Defiler Bone Samples... for more details.


So I tested it quickly and I found out that the Reaver doesn't attack at all. I believe the buff to raise or drop its movement speed is bugged as well.

Another weird thing I noticed is that the Swarm Guardian somehow have 275/200 life (and in blue as well but I guess it's due to the lack of wireframe.)

Other than that, I noticed you made some triggers in a library inside that mod. Are any of them required for specific units if I merge your mod into my Warlords & Merchants SC2 map? It doesn't seem to be the case at first glance but I rather be sure.

EDIT : As a side thing, adding a simple map linked to your mod with all added/modified units on the map could help "selling" your mod out for other persons to try. Preferable to add some dummy enemy foes and buildings to allow testing the abilities that absolutely require an enemy target to use.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:00 pm
by RazorclawX
Ricky_Honejasi wrote:Other than that, I noticed you made some triggers in a library inside that mod. Are any of them required for specific units if I merge your mod into my Warlords & Merchants SC2 map? It doesn't seem to be the case at first glance but I rather be sure.


They aren't used for anything in the mod itself, although the drop pod triggers really need the Campaign drop pod trigger to work correctly.


EDIT: Updated with test map and fix for Reaver. Although I don't know what you mean by the Reaver doesn't attack...

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:47 pm
by IskatuMesk
Doesn't seem to be an option for hiding doodads/anything other than terrain cells based on regions or anything. Only everything off or on.

Which is kind of bad because it seems certain doodads or particles will render outside the farclip. This lags the shit out of a TPS.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:04 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
RazorclawX wrote:EDIT: Updated with test map and fix for Reaver. Although I don't know what you mean by the Reaver doesn't attack...


If you try to move the Reaver in range of attacking, it didn't do a thing.
If you try to manually attack with it, it just attempt to move towards the enemy (like a scan-move or something).

The only functionality there was just to create additional scarabs and that's it.

In case it has any importance, I did always created additional scarabs before even attempting my first attack with the Reaver.

Well, I guess ill go test out your newer version.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:20 pm
by RazorclawX
Figured out what the problem was. There was a change in my test map that wasn't made in the mod file concerning the Reaver weapon.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:25 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
Ah I see, was about to post about the difference between my test map and mine about the Reaver but it seems you found the problem (and solution) already.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:42 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
So now in v1.02, the Reaver's attack does work.

So far, the only thing I still notice is the Reaver's movement speed doesn't change depending if it is making scarabs or not (due to a visible buff that implies that it should change).

But ultimately, that's a rather minor detail as far I am concerned.

I will probably test more at a later date and I plan to do merge your mod into my W&M map in the near future.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:02 pm
by RazorclawX
Ricky_Honejasi wrote:So now in v1.02, the Reaver's attack does work.

So far, the only thing I still notice is the Reaver's movement speed doesn't change depending if it is making scarabs or not (due to a visible buff that implies that it should change).

But ultimately, that's a rather minor detail as far I am concerned.


Oh, it does. It's a lot more noticeable when you have one Reaver building and one Reaver not.

There's two other annoyances I have with my current implementation-- the Scarab doesn't do random angle turns, and the Reaver will still acquire targets even when it's unloaded. Although... to be fair, the Carrier also does that with its interceptors as well, so it may very well be a purposeful behavior (even though it's clearly different from the Starcraft 1 behavior). I'm sure there's a way to fix that, but I'm not thinking about that at the moment.

I will probably test more at a later date and I plan to do merge your mod into my W&M map in the near future.


There's no need to do any merging, really. You just add it as a dependency and never have to worry about updating mutliple Mod files in parallel. All that would have to be changed is the dependency and that can be done independent of the map (which is how the Reaver weapon fell through).

ED: although I think it's actually possible that my mod contains words censored by Battle.net... one of the skills in the mod is called 'Deathstream' and I heard 'death' is censored.

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:21 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
RazorclawX wrote:
There's no need to do any merging, really. You just add it as a dependency and never have to worry about updating mutliple Mod files in parallel. All that would have to be changed is the dependency and that can be done independent of the map (which is how the Reaver weapon fell through).

ED: although I think it's actually possible that my mod contains words censored by Battle.net... one of the skills in the mod is called 'Deathstream' and I heard 'death' is censored.


Normally I would feel that a merging would be necessary but since Blizzard was nice enough to increase the number of maps/mods per account to 10, I can afford to take an extra slot for your mod separately.

Although, ill do some minor specific modifications to fit W&M's use since I already implanted some stuff differently that could come in conflict with your mod. For example, the Lurker is already in with a different method (basically the "Lurker Aspect" SC1 way vs your Hive requirement to transform).

Re: SC2 Retail Editor Findings, mini-tutorials, etc.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:28 pm
by RazorclawX
Ricky_Honejasi wrote:Although, ill do some minor specific modifications to fit W&M's use since I already implanted some stuff differently that could come in conflict with your mod. For example, the Lurker is already in with a different method (basically the "Lurker Aspect" SC1 way vs your Hive requirement to transform).


The dependencies are kind of interesting in that it takes whichever one is listed first over the other ones, with the map itself being on top of all of them. Although I did get the feeling that modifying default units would inevitably cause a lot of things to turn out like that. Since I also expect the cut SC1 units to come back I tried to avoid naming things in an obvious manner in reference to them.

By the way, have you had problems with being unable to cancel a Lurker morph? That's one of the things I've had problems with in the morph's default loadout.