FFS Event Info and Replays

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IskatuMesk
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:39 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:Putting the cost % in the tooltip is too dangerous in my opinion. It's one of the things that MUST be obvious at any cost.

Want to abuse it as merchant? Make 50 Put your marines at 999% price and see how the quick buying sucker just gave away all his minerals to you after buying them.



This is exactly how phone companies and game companies like Blizzard work.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby tipereth » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:11 pm

IskatuMesk wrote:
Ricky_Honejasi wrote:Putting the cost % in the tooltip is too dangerous in my opinion. It's one of the things that MUST be obvious at any cost.

Want to abuse it as merchant? Make 50 Put your marines at 999% price and see how the quick buying sucker just gave away all his minerals to you after buying them.



This is exactly how phone companies and game companies like Blizzard work.


No?

It would be nice if warlords could 'order' stuff. (since doing it over chat reveals what they buy to other warlords)

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Alevice » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:43 pm

They way I would work it is to disregard the whole wares per mrchant and focus on wares as a whole and just show what merch options for each ware you have. Something like this:

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EDIT:

I forgot to add it, but a simple button right to the buy button could be a request button too. The combobox could have at the end the total amount of wares available per merch and maybe even the icon could have a small number at the bottom right corner that showed the sum of said totals.

Hell even more, once text inpot boxes work you could have a filter, where players could start typing what the wares name start with and it would only show said wares. The filter should be persistent so they can close and reopen and the filter would still be tehre.

Going wilder, you as warlord could have a faved merch, which you could pick in a combobox at the top, which would make said merchants wares show on top in addition to be the preselected item in the ware's merchant combobox

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby UntamedLoli » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:08 pm

If you are that dumb to not even look at the prices they would've bought them at 999% regardless where the cost was displayed, don't design around retards.
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Admission Into FFS (I guess?)

Postby Zarkuz » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:24 pm

Hey there, I watch the vids that Mesk posted on this and it seemed EXTREME! amounts of fun, if there is any room I'd like to participate.

Character.ID: Zarkus.411

Youtube username: Cubandarknez

Looking forward to taking part in FFS.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Alevice » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:26 pm

The easy ay is just to add Honejasi to your friends list and pester him at the schedlued hour.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Theia_Loki » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:05 pm

Just posting a replay of mine (even though it's from Practice).
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Should be somewhat amusing even though the major highlights were me generating creep on the Terran player's worker lines just to be an ass.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:04 pm

tipereth wrote:It would be nice if warlords could 'order' stuff. (since doing it over chat reveals what they buy to other warlords)


Without working text boxes, this is quite tricky since I would pretty much have to mass add every unit-type which when you try to find the one you want, it's flooded with 0 quantity ones.

In addition, warlords normally have ally chat on which only other merchants can hear (and not other warlords). Seems the "natural" thing is down the gutter harder than I thought.

Alevice wrote:They way I would work it is to disregard the whole wares per mrchant and focus on wares as a whole and just show what merch options for each ware you have. Something like this:


While a very reasonable approach, I find the following flaw :

Due to the space required for each listbox (player name, 2 price values), I am pretty much forced to either keep the "line" system (more or less like I do) or at best fit in 2 columns and that's it. That's opposed to be able to have at least 4-6 columns + all required rows.

However, I intend to consider it since other with my current ideas, your idea is about the only other one that seems to make sense to me. While it might not magically cut down that many of units shown at once, it does have the clear advantage of showing all merchants able to sell it AND being able to quick compare on top of not leaving any specific merchant "in the dust".

HunterKillers wrote:If you are that dumb to not even look at the prices they would've bought them at 999% regardless where the cost was displayed, don't design around retards.


Warlords can play under quite a lot of pressure so they won't always have time to properly check a hidden % while they have to mass buy.

Let's take this situation :

A guy got his army pretty much destroyed nearly at the front of his base. 25 enemy hydralisks remains and is now marching in to destroy everything.

He wants to mass buying 75 marines asap could save him from those hydralisks. Without the army, the estimate time before his base gets too crippled is about 45 seconds. Pressure comes in. He just need those marines asap, doesn't see the %, doesn't suspect a thing then buys.

Oh snap, in the heat of the moment that he was too busy trying to save his ass, he just gave away all his minerals because that 999% was just too hidden. Even if he manages to fend off the hydralisks, it's an easy gg against him in the long run if it's not in the next 5-10 minutes. Ultimately, he wasn't a retard but just didn't paid attention to something unexpected that just cost him the game.

In addition, if people start abusing this, Warlord players in general will avoid to buy from Merchants in case it happens again even if they careful. Finally, if they distrust merchants out of that bad experience, why the heck they would continue playing this map in the first place?

Thus, the price % is something that WILL stay obvious regardless of the new interface. This is a thing I won't budge.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:15 pm

Sorry for double-posting but I wanted it to make this post obvious.

Since the other big issue are too long W&M games (which actually managed to go 3 hours in 1-2 cases), I would like suggestions on how to make this issue much less worse. By that, I would prefer to ensure that it goes down to 1 hour to 2 hour games max.

So far, my only reasonable solutions about it would be turn the infinite harvestable resources into mineral packs of 4500 or 6000 and vespene geysers of 9000 or 12000. The idea is to make the main eventually run out of resources instead of essentially being able to stay back in your main for mining endlessly for the whole game.

Thus turning it into a non-infinite money map would ensure that the game won't take forever. Another side thing might be pump up the harvesting rate to 2x from 1.5x to encourage flaming it on buying merchant wares while mining out the resources quicker for a quicker game end.

The only thing I might be worried is it might make the gameplay just a bit too fast if I pump the harvesting rate.

Thus, also suggest different values and/or different changes.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby UntamedLoli » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:26 pm

There is always limiting it to 200% of the price, still if you were going to set the price to 999% you shouldn't be playing with us anymore.

An instant mouseover isn't exactly hidden either, I'm talking about using tooltips.
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Alevice » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:28 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:
Alevice wrote:They way I would work it is to disregard the whole wares per mrchant and focus on wares as a whole and just show what merch options for each ware you have. Something like this:


While a very reasonable approach, I find the following flaw :

Due to the space required for each listbox (player name, 2 price values), I am pretty much forced to either keep the "line" system (more or less like I do) or at best fit in 2 columns and that's it. That's opposed to be able to have at least 4-6 columns + all required rows.


Actually the display doesnt necessarily have to be a grid, nor it really has to differ much from your current design to preserve the same design focus and functionality. Here is a somewhat compromised layout that could actually be more efficient at the task:


Image

The goal with the wares filter is thatif you don't feel like sailing across seas of pages, you could type ultralisk and it would display all the wares of the current tab type (units/researches/etc) that had the word ultralisk in it (maybe also a check box that allows to filter via unit description too?).

If you know a merch has consistently good prices and shit, picking him/her on the Prefered Merchant would show his wares on top and having him preselected in the merchant comboboxes, while still displaying other merch wares eblow the prefered merch's ones.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Krazy » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:56 pm

Want a faster game, then remove the "Warlord Guardians" so someone can actually die before half an hour in to the game.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby Xenon » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:19 pm

The game drags on when there's 2-4 players left. Getting half the players killed 5 minutes in will just serve to annoy them, and if the resources are also made finite it may make the game longer due to having fewer players to mine out the map.

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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:18 am

how about you add those special siege units I suggested ages ago instead of pussyfooting around it?
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Re: FFS Event Info & Replays

Postby UntamedLoli » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:48 am

Moustache Lords that shoot Immortals ogogogogog
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