Lavarinth wrote:And never again as the first map or I swear to God I'm going to..
Ill probably have that Phantom Mode map as the first map for the FFS event in the short term (as in until we find another map to "kill" time until more people arrive). Your real want is mostly to be able to play in the event in the next 5-30 minutes (instead of 1.5 to 3 hours) you do arrive.
However, I still intend to have W&M as the second map to play right after except to rehost Phantom Mode a second time in a row before we go to W&M.
IskatuMesk wrote:Okay after playing (and then casting) W&M for a fourth time here is my comments.
* Units
- I really like Scouts now. I feel they are balanced and really help Protoss anti-air. They aren't too strong; they give something to fight Vikings but are still fairly weak against ground.
Just to be sure, do you mean the Scouts with Light (newest for about 1-2 versions) or Armored (old)? Although otherwise, I did change the Scouts with Light so that they can kill void rays while yet die to phoenixes cost-effectiveness wise.
Against other races, I don't think there is any serious issues yet.
IskatuMesk wrote:- I don't like how powerful Scourge have become. Because of the smart AI for scourge they NEVER overkill. Ok, it's fine if you throw them against mass void rays, but keep in mind that the more you have super mobile AA the more units like carriers and BC's, which are already seriously screwed in many circumstances, suffer. Even on these maps it takes bc's ages to cross any amount of space. They can't outrun HSM, they can't outrun vikings, they can't fight mass corruptors/void rays/even goliaths. But scourge is just the final nail in the coffin. I'm speaking about BC's specifically.
Personally I believe that scourges should counter BCs and such. However, what really hurt is mostly the lack of combo bcs or carriers yet.
So far, the only thing I could think of would be to have some kind of "Immortal Shield" (but HP-wise like King Ultralisks have) that caps damage to 50-75 or something. Not sure if the normal ones should have them or combo ones, etc.
IskatuMesk wrote:I don't know how to solve this problem. You don't want to change vanilla units that much, and I understand. Since there is no super BC unit yet, a suggestion I have for one is to give it a short-range turret that attacks nearby units and does large bonus versus light in addition to whatever else it might have. This will offer it some protection against scourge. The super siege carrier I suggested wouldn't have an attack suitable to kill mass anti-air, but it could have an immortal-style shield to take hits from scourge spam. As it is, scourge feel way too OP with both splash, cloaking, charge, and huge damage on top of super smart AI.
I admit I might wanted to go a bit too overkill on mass air since I REALLY wanted to avoid games that the only thing you think is "Mass air & win".
IskatuMesk wrote:- Dragoons are insanely overpowered. They are overpowered because they are ultra cost effective. 8 range makes them totally immune to any static defense in the game except for sieged tanks, yet their DPS is so high they still do comparable non-splash DPS to tanks anyways. They match every other ranged unit in the game except for Odins, Immortals, and Colossi. All of this for the exact same cost of a stalker. Dumb.
My personal logic was to allow stalkers to be the weaker but "sneaky" (due to Blink) while the Dragoon being the assault version. However, I admit that in W&M, you usually prefer to assault rather than sneaking in (except cloaked transports pretty much).
So far, I reduced the Dragoons' range to 7. Upgrade still give +2 from 5 to 7. To compare, stalkers are still range 6.
As for cost-effectiveness, it might be yes and no. Dragoons have 15 damage, -5 vs light, +5 vs armored. Dragoons does provide both air/ground however they can get milked down by mass marines (Light, no gas cost), mass marauders (similar base damage/costs + stim), mass zerglings (Light, no mineral), mass hydras (Light).
In toss vs toss, I admit it comes down to Immortals+Dragoons battles but usually the one with the most Immortals (50 total dmg vs armored) wins as Dragoons (20 -> 10 dmg due Immortal's Shields) are only useful as backup vs air units in those scenarios.
Thus, ultimately before I change costs, I want to see how a range of 7 fares when structures can hit Dragoons back.
IskatuMesk wrote:***About ravens***
I don't intend to change Ravens more beyond changing their HKS missile's casting range back to standard melee. For a good while, they still had the beta's much longer range.
IskatuMesk wrote:Odins are great vs dragoons but... eh. Krazy's learned that immortals + dragoons = you are god. Dragoons fill in the holes in protoss ground in a simple and hideous way. They need to be something like 150/75 and 7 range. Not enough of a nerf to make them useless but something to make them not the most cost effective and spammable unit in the game.
Before a cost increase, I want to see how much a range 7 will change. In addition, in future plans, I intend to implement Advanced Research Merchants which one of its many researches would be "Great Blink" to extend the Stalker's blink range to 150%-200% which that alone might put Stalkers back ahead.
IskatuMesk wrote:- Workers need to cost supply. Period. Maybe have a super expensive merchant worker that costs no supply, but regular workers MUST cost supply, as well as cliff workers. Absolute must.
To be honest, that's the request I am the most surprised to hear especially when you did seem quite in favor of higher supply caps.
Concerning supply caps, I intended to have 0 worker supply cost but drop the total supply cap to 250. However, I am not sure if it should have a 0.5 worker supply cost and 250 cap or a 1 worker supply cost and a 300 cap.
IskatuMesk wrote:
* Map
- Further concerns about these issues spread to the map. SC2's gas economy is a clusterfuck of stupid with the addition of 2 geysers. Zerg is always floating minerals. Terran is always floating minerals. Protoss not so much. But gas is always at a premium.
Gas will always be a premium in W&M but I don't mind that it is more accessible.
IskatuMesk wrote:To help alleviate the gas issue I fixed the single-gas expansions, changed the center of the map, and added some geyser-only bases blocked by cocks. Although Krazy complained about the cocks I felt they were serving their exact purpose by preventing fast-expanding to those locations. Most people seem to opt to expand to the islands regardless of the cocks, never kill them, and just mine from beside them. LOL? Enjoy your crippled gas economy.
Yeah, that's something I always wondered, especially when I did move again the rocks to avoid mains "outside" of rocks from blocking a newer main next to the minerals/gas that Krazy did complain.
IskatuMesk wrote:I want to take Krazy's big, open land map and use that as a basis for new terrain. Instead of high yields there would be an assortment of mineral-only, gas-only, and then standard expansions throughout the map. I like that there's a variety of ramps and raised areas that aren't islands but offer defensive postures anyways. If ricky wants to port his map to that terrain, I can rebalance and rebuild it a bit to suite my idea and present it as an alternative possibility if people like it.
Personally, I am favor of it since the current melee have just a few too many things that can add additional lag (all the special doodads, etc.) without much benefit.
The only thing I really request is to know if Krazy's map is truly made by him. With W&M being public eventually, I want to use melee maps with the authors' permission.
Alternatively we can try Thalraxal's map whenever he finishes it up.
I am fine with that too.
EDIT :
Another thing - the map is still using old data. Check all of the beta patches and make sure the map is using those changes. Amongst them are fixes to PF's, HSM, and the new patch that changes tanks and such. Also notable is Thors, Void Rays, phoenixes moving shot, and other stuff.
I am aware that it is using old data as often I have to change major things to get back standard melee functionality for many units. Recently, I managed to get mostly the Phoenix's attack on move feature (minus the "always look towards the enemy while moving" feature).
HSM got modified back to standard range.
For Planetary Fortress, I have no clue what was really changed.
I don't recall much of the Void Rays' changes (unless you mean the 3 levels of beam).
Not sure if Thors still have that splash AA.
Still didn't poke patch 1.1 stuff.
Dammit, too many little things to check and change.
EDIT 2 :
Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I still have to implement RCX's mod which contains Corsairs and Valkyries for the scourge issue although I still have to test it more (and consider what W&M specific changes I want). Although even just making usual changes in W&M does take quite a lot of time.