SC2 BETA Editor findings

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Master Jademus Sreg
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Master Jademus Sreg » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:22 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:-> Since you can easily die, you should add some function that you can restart and try again. If you feel very lazy, add this very map (pointing to map self) as the "next map" to load after a few seconds on death.

Actually, there is a native for restarting the map, so I assume there is a comparable function in the GUI.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:27 pm

Master Jademus Sreg wrote:Actually, there is a native for restarting the map, so I assume there is a comparable function in the GUI.


Interesting to know. Although in Tipereth's map, it hides the top-left GUI to exiting games and it truly didn't have any trigger to restart the game. :p

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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby RazorclawX » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:31 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:-> A method of exiting the map would be nice.


If you hide the UI you can unhide the menu bar right after it and it'll show.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby tipereth » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:31 am

Qancakes of SC2Mapster did the movement system for Perdition. (and I stole it for this map) Attack/targeting system are mine.

I've tried to fix the camera thing, there's already one implemented for if you go too far so as to invert the camera, but I can't get it to work, maybe some more messing around will fix it.

Updated version with menu bar/respawn, and a bunch of added enemies and a semi-boss thing.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby RazorclawX » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:53 am

I have a pretty good working version of my vertical shooter, although the boss at the end isn't really much of a boss. Probably going to clean it up a bit more before I post it.

One of the things that bothers me, though, is the Data editor doesn't appear to have a built-in means to detect collisions. I did end up using Triggers to do this, which is how I had it done in Warcraft 3, but I find it kind of annoying to have to resort to that. I only say this because my current implementation doesn't have dodge-able fireballs.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Apparently Blizzard is planning to implement built-in sound files that say stuff like Headshot! or Victory! or Fail!. Only they're not actually implemented yet... you get an amusing Placeholder Sound! instead.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Xenon » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:01 am

Collision detection is why the forced 1/16 second increment thing is driving me nuts. My triggerless collision system (based on data editor periodic effects) is also forced into this increment, and as a result its accuracy suffers, limiting the speed and how small the projectile hit size can be.  :P

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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sun May 02, 2010 1:43 pm

So more I found :

22)  Researches can modify pretty much any value possible of pretty much anything. It also have a ridiculous set of modifications (and not just a hard cap of 4 modifications compared of WC3).

Such values even include a unit's or building's build time/cost. For example, you can make the Command Center's mineral build cost go down by 50 minerals (off the SCV's ability build list) if wanted for that specific player if he has the research.

23) A research can have multiple levels. However, I believe (not sure yet)  that if you want the very same research to have a different tooltip/icon each time, you have to modify the research (via the same research's effects) to modify the tooltip along with probably validators. Ill have to check this longer.

For researches, I still didn't finish to test as I did managed to make a research work but still fail to "remove" the research itself as it hits the max level. However, it doesn't give any more levels worth of upgrades beyond the assigned max level.

In other words, if I put a max level of 5 that each give +50 HP and I try to research it a 6th time, it would stay a total max of +250 HP instead of going into +300 HP (but the research level would considered lv6 instead of lv5 nonetheless)

24)  If you attempt to go out of array bounds (variable-wise) , It will show a generic red error message about it in-game and will not crash the game. This is different to WC3 where if you went longer than your current array bounds, it would auto-extend until 8192 or so.

This is probably due to allowing up to 4 dimensional arrays. In general programming (as in C++ that would probably be used to make SC2), if you want to extend the bounds beyond your current ones, you often had to copy all the data from one array to another. There are other means to avoid it but I am not too sure how effective they would be in general use for this specific case.

A single array would be reasonable with up to 8192 elements to copy (not too bad) but even a 2D would be 8192*8192 (67108864). A 4D would be a 8192*8192*8192*8192 potential copy (being 45,035,996,273,704,496 ... doesn't even fit at all in RAM memory + Cached HD space).

Thus, Blizzard preferred to allow more array dimensions but ditch any method to extend an array automatically in mid-game.

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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby WB » Mon May 03, 2010 12:10 am

Maybe instead of bitching about things you consider broken here, where no blizzard employee will ever read it, you can post them on the official bug forums.

If you aren't trying to make it better stop bitching. Especially since a lot of complaints I see sound like bugs (like water copy having values reset)

If you don't bitch in the right place, might as well not bitch at all. :P
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby IskatuMesk » Mon May 03, 2010 1:03 am

I posted there a few days ago.

But judging by Brett Wood's stance on Wc3 when it was still young I expect him to ignore all of my suggestions just the same.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Maglok » Mon May 03, 2010 3:04 am

Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Mon May 03, 2010 8:31 am

WB wrote:Maybe instead of bitching about things you consider broken here, where no blizzard employee will ever read it, you can post them on the official bug forums.

If you aren't trying to make it better stop bitching. Especially since a lot of complaints I see sound like bugs (like water copy having values reset)

If you don't bitch in the right place, might as well not bitch at all. :P


Personally I consider this thread more of what you find positively or negatively about the editor but at the core, information of what's actually possible or the concrete limitations. If it's actually possible, it's nice to know the possibility. If it's a concrete limitation then you can have a clue that you might have to backdoor the limitation if possible.

About the bitching part, personally I tend to take the stance that a company (Blizzard or pretty much any other) will give the "game and editor as it is" and that you are simply stuck with the good and bad of them period. That's about the only "safe" basic assumption there will be to me.

If there are improvements, that's good but otherwise, deal or leave.

Also, I never been someone who really reached out to tell my suggestions to a company since someone else probably did WAY before I would ever do it in the first place anyway.

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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby RazorclawX » Mon May 03, 2010 10:05 am

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:23) A research can have multiple levels. However, I believe (not sure yet)  that if you want the very same research to have a different tooltip/icon each time, you have to modify the research (via the same research's effects) to modify the tooltip along with probably validators. Ill have to check this longer.


This is one of the reasons why having a pre-defined behavior is somewhat desirable. It obviously would go against the design philosophy of the editor, but the real headache is knowing which of the linked objects need to be copied and which don't, and then how the linked objects relate to each other.

In retrospect trying to copy Spawn Infested Terran was probably the worst thing to try duplicating as practice since the entire chain is one big mishmash of crap that I wonder how the hell they got it working to begin with.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Alevice » Mon May 03, 2010 10:11 am

You think Spawn Infested Terran is a mess? Try broodlord's weapon. Fungal Growth and shit like that is childs play in contrast.
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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Mon May 03, 2010 10:40 am

RazorclawX wrote:This is one of the reasons why having a pre-defined behavior is somewhat desirable. It obviously would go against the design philosophy of the editor, but the real headache is knowing which of the linked objects need to be copied and which don't, and then how the linked objects relate to each other.

In retrospect trying to copy Spawn Infested Terran was probably the worst thing to try duplicating as practice since the entire chain is one big mishmash of crap that I wonder how the hell they got it working to begin with.


Well quite frankly, I didn't went into behaviors yet. So I am still unsure how to implant the behavior stuff in any sort yet much less to change icons/tooltips.


In other news, I did manage after 2-3 hours to learn how to make a functional multi-level research (if we exclude look changes and such).

Here's what I had to learn and do. There are multiple screenshots attached below.

1.1) Make a new "upgrade"
  This part is required for the actual research itself

1.2) Go into "Values", pops up a window and add whatever modifications you want the upgrade to do.
1.3) Go back and modify the "Max level" field to whatever max you want.
1.4) Go back and modify the "Affected Unit Array" field to the units that will have the modifications on. I think I had to do that step to prevent an issue later on which I don't remember which issue.
1.5) Optional, pick some icon for the upgrade (in fields)

2.1) Make a new "requirement"
  This part is required to prevent your research to be upgrade beyond the level 5. Change level as desired.

2.2) Go into values, pops up a window
2.3) Only bother with "Use" and set it up as "Less Than" then "Sum" then inside it "Count (Your upg) Queues, In Progress, Completed" then back inside "less than", add "constant" and then "5" as constant. Do ensure you pick the "upgrade" in each case when required. See screenshots since it will be more obvious that way.
2.4) Modify "Less Than" 's tooltip with "Maximum Level must be below than 5"
2.5) Don't bother with "Show" (only required if you want to hide the icon but at maxed out, it will grey the icon).

3.1) Make a new "button"
   This is the "graphical" aspect of abilities and such. It also contains the name, tooltip and icon that will truly show up in addition of other stuff including hotkeys.
3.2) Set Name, Tooltip and Name as wanted.

4.1) Make a new "ability" duplicated off a researching ability (Ex : "Armory - Research (Armory)" ability will do fine)
   This is required to actually use the ability, button AND requirement together.
4.2) Go into the "requirements" fields, make a window pop up.
4.3) Double-click any research slot, pops up a window
4.4) Change state to "Restricted" (not sure of that part but it can't hurt)
4.5) Change "Default Button" to whatever button you made earlier
4.6) Change "Requirements" to the "requirement" you made earlier
4.7) Modify the vital/resources costs as wanted.
4.8) Modify "Time" at the near very bottom as your research delay in this case.
4.9) Change "Upgrade" to whatever upgrade you made earlier
4.10) Click OK on the various windows you opened to accept the changes.

5.1) Pick the unit (in unit section) you want the research on.
5.2) In the fields, go into "ability command". A window will pop up.
5.3) Pick the slot you want your research to be.
5.4) Pick the wanted button
5.5) As Command Type, it's "Ability Command"
5.6) Pick the ability/ability command as those you made pretty much.

You are done after poking that much. You might want to see my attached screenshots to have a better idea on how I did.
Attachments
Research1.JPG
Research2.JPG
Research3.JPG
Research4.JPG
Research5.JPG
Research6.JPG
Research7.JPG
Research8.JPG

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Re: SC2 Editor findings

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Mon May 03, 2010 10:41 am

Extra post to show the remaining screenshots.

EDIT : Forgot a screenshot.
EDIT 2 : Reupdated last screenshot as JPG likes to kill red color.
Attachments
Research9.JPG
ResearchA.JPG
ResearchB.JPG
ResearchC.JPG
ResearchD.JPG
ResearchE.JPG
Last edited by Ricky_Honejasi on Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.


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