Editor question thread

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Xenon
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Xenon » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:13 pm

Success... sorta. I managed to trick the retarget system into retargeting any unit the missile encounters (as in, comes within its collision radius). Unfortunately this only works in 2D (as in it retargets a unit it would otherwise fly over) and it uses an area validator to detect when the missile arrives, so it might not work well when there are a lot of missiles flying around.

Retarget seems a bit buggy, it always hits the unit center and an impact model also appears on the initial target.

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Re: Editor question thread

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:05 pm

Alevice wrote:What are other games with good editors anyway? Not rethorical question. I just think that most rts I like to play have shitty editors. Hammer doesnt count :P


Age of Wonders 2, not even an RTS, had a fairly nice editor. Starcraft 1 had a pretty decent editor for its time, too.

But the truth is that most editors are shitty for one reason or another. Sometimes the reasons can't be helped and it's a limitation of the game. Sometimes (Relic editors and EA editors) the editors are just so much what the fuck how did they think this was a good idea bad that it totally kills everything instantly.

But what makes sc2's editor stands out to me is that even though the engine is very powerful and the editor is capable of a lot, what's largely holding it back is Blizzard's laziness and incapability to design ui. I cannot believe that this interface made it out to alpha much less beta. If the devs are using this editor for the campaign there is no question in my mind that is why it is taking so long to finish. Seriously, the way this is laid out and organized maximizes the time and complexity for doing even the most mundane of tasks - description and unit names are on the opposite ends of the list for christ sake! And while they have absolutely no qualms about spamming vertical stacks of superfluous text boxes, the texture preview windows are absolutely tiny and practically useless..

Did I mention that you can only have 2 upper cliff elevations and 1 lower which can't even have ramps? Um, what the fuck? I hope to Christ that's a bug.

Oh, and you can't have more than 1 type of creep.

Or a map bigger than 256x256.

Son, I am disappoint.
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby UntamedLoli » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Alevice wrote:What are other games with good editors anyway? Not rethorical question. I just think that most rts I like to play have shitty editors. Hammer doesnt count :P


Halo Custom Edition.
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Xenon » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:04 pm

The strict cliff restriction is indeed disappointing. The lack of ramps into the deep pits is probably because the pits are unpathable; I'm not even sure that can be changed.

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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Lavarinth » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:35 pm

Hunter_Killers wrote:
Alevice wrote:What are other games with good editors anyway? Not rethorical question. I just think that most rts I like to play have shitty editors. Hammer doesnt count :P


Halo Custom Edition.


I think.. He meant RTS
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby UntamedLoli » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:50 pm

Lavarinth wrote:
Hunter_Killers wrote:
Alevice wrote:What are other games with good editors anyway? Not rethorical question. I just think that most rts I like to play have shitty editors. Hammer doesnt count :P


Halo Custom Edition.


I think.. He meant RTS


It's editing the exact same data which is the entire problem, it also had a good scripting engine.

It also didn't revolve around the annoying branching system SC2 uses.
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Xenon » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:01 pm

The branching may be annoying, but I'm not sure there's any other way to allow this kind of flexibility without scripting.


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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Archangel » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:31 pm

I am LOVIN this editor!

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I only got to fiddle with it for a few minutes, so I don't know all the features or hot keys or whatsitnots, but what I'd like to see is a real-time rotation ability.

What I mean is, in order to place a unit and then turn it, right now I have to double click on the unit and mess with the circle-line thingy. I'd like to just be able to click on it and hold "ctrl" or whatever and spin it how I want.

Maybe that's already possible. I'll find out soon enough.
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Xenon » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:58 pm

Select the unit, hold ctrl and drag. (Oddly enough it works with Pylons.)

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Re: Editor question thread

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:59 pm

Xenon wrote:The strict cliff restriction is indeed disappointing. The lack of ramps into the deep pits is probably because the pits are unpathable; I'm not even sure that can be changed.


Wow.

That really is retarded.
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Alevice » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:13 pm

Relevant in a way, a tutorial I am working on that will go indepth to describe everything that a hero requires, eventually including fancy basic actor trickery, behaviours, levelable abilties, veterancy.

http://sc2c.org/object-editing/how-make-hero-t14.html
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Xenon » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:28 pm

Effects can't reference a related missile even though actor effects can. It's hampering my progress  :P

Edit: Woohoo, found a loophole, turns out you can enum area as a launch effect and use that to put a behavior on the missile that's linked to the unit that fired the missile, so effects created by that behavior give kill credit to the proper unit.

So far, a projectile that collides with units (in 2D) needs a total of 7 effects, 1 behavior and 4 validators  ::)
Last edited by Xenon on Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Editor question thread

Postby RazorclawX » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:18 pm

Xenon wrote:So far, a projectile that collides with units (in 2D) needs a total of 7 effects, 1 behavior and 4 validators   ::)


I think this alone is the reason why the editor is such a failure. Even the built-in copy function can't get it right (I tried to copy Fungal Spores and it does everything except generate the graphics, for instance).
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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Mucky » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:40 pm

Why is it that whenever I try to make a ramp everything will just spazz out and create cliffs in places that didn't have them and erase cliffs that did have them and trying to make a second ramp makes this weird branch thing where it just puts ramps with no cliffs to go with them HOLY FUCK EVERYTHING IS DISINTEGRATING

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Re: Editor question thread

Postby Alevice » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:17 pm

RazorclawX wrote:
Xenon wrote:So far, a projectile that collides with units (in 2D) needs a total of 7 effects, 1 behavior and 4 validators  ::)


I think this alone is the reason why the editor is such a failure. Even the built-in copy function can't get it right (I tried to copy Fungal Spores and it does everything except generate the graphics, for instance).


Actor data is missing then.
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