Patch 8

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wibod
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Re: Patch 8

Postby wibod » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:54 am

Falchion wrote:
Mucky wrote:this is what terran needs

SCVS: Have 60 health again.
MARINES: Down to 40 health. Maybe buff its shield upgrade.
MARAUDERS: Now have 60 health, cost 50 minerals, 25 gas, and 1 supply.
REAPERS: Now cost 50 minerals, 25 gas, and have reduced build time.
MEDIVACS: Changed back to dropships because medivacs are ASS compared to medics.
MEDICS: Back in the game.
SIEGE TANKS: Now cost 150 minerals, 100 gas, and 2 supply.
THORS: Now cost 300 minerals, 150 gas, and 4-6 (whatever supply it costs right now is fine, but I forget)
BANSHEES: Removed from the game because its existence invokes this stupid-ass C&C feel to Terran which needs to stay out of SC.
VIKINGS: Can attack air while in ground form ala goliaths because terran doesn't have enough anti-air options.

end wish list


My opinion for terrans is making them also more VERSATILE:  TWO WEAPONS AT ONCE, like I'm planning for the Geos in Duality.

- MARINES:  Now obtain 50 health and a secondary, tech-needed weapon: Grenades, which slow down enemy units and do 15-20 damage.  Tech costs 100M/150G and it's done on Tech Lab.
- MARAUDERS:  Removed from the game, it's grenade attack redefined as secondary for Marines.  Model has been re-skinned and given back a dual flamethrower attack, renamed the Firebat.
- MEDIVACS:  Has now the Spreadfire Rocket pods upgrade, a Valkyrie-ish AA weapon which does 15 splash for countering Zerg air.
- BANSHEES:  In order to make rights for it's expensive costs, will raise it's build time to 120, be given back it's splash ground attack, and a slow, gradual acceleration, making players have to keep Banshees moving to have advantage of full speed.
- HELLIONS:  Flame and model are now removed from the game, replaced by the Vulture II (or Vult-II), which now has a MG attached on it's front, effective vs workers, and can lay back Spider mines.


No, keep CoH out of my SC.
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Ricky_Honejasi
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Re: Patch 8

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:07 am

Personally, each time I get vikings or banshees, I often wonder why the hell it couldn't be just the wraith (can attack air well which banshees totally lacks, can poke ground without viking's mode delay and can cloak).

I am usually not someone who pokes lore but I wonder why military-wise it would be a good idea to switch from wraiths to vikings and banshees. The only real advantage I can see would be viking's assault mode to become a ground unit to avoid enemy static anti-air defense.

I would prefer wraiths back since I rather prefer cloaked air against enemy air units.

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Re: Patch 8

Postby Alevice » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:27 am

Strategically wise, Viking ground mode is for the most part worthless, other than escaping inevitable death for a few seconds.

In fact, most aircraft (well, military overall) in starcraft seems to have switched to overspecialized anti-something. I dont see how much of that mkakes sense. :P
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Re: Patch 8

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:38 pm

Ricky > It doesn't, Browder just wanted Orcas in sc2.

The banshee is totally cost ineffective. 150/100/3 for something that is only good at killing workers, and hardly even that if a handful of hydras or turrets are in the way? Even the wraith was more effective because it was faster and cloaking was cheaper to get, PLUS it could take out overlords. You only see people trying to cheese banshees if the opponent is being lax in their anticipation of being unable to get past a wall (which is really easy to compensate for, anyway; Terrans - scan, Protoss - fast observer (they go robo anyway, right?), Zerg - suicide overlord). If you get Banshees and they get countered, which is more easy than not... you're fucked.

Thors overall in their anti-ground kind of overlap the tank. They don't have quite the range but they're slightly more durable and do a lot higher single-target damage. Once you can get thors there is little reason to build tanks because they're both expensive as hell and tanks have scarcely any more health than Marauders, which are far more maneuverable, can stim, and can be healed. Oh, and tanks cost 3 supply. I still can't believe that tanks cost 3 supply. There is nothing that justifies that in the least when Roaches cost 1 and Immortals cost 4. Blizzard is just trying to keep the tank from being a staple unit again. They want the game to flow exactly how they want and not how the players want to play. Thus, stupid hard counters and stupidly high number values.

But hey, that's what mods and maps are for, right?
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Re: Patch 8

Postby Alevice » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:33 pm

My first MP mod will involve starting by default with 500 minerals, less workers, less techtree dead ends, and more zerg casters. Oh, and Lockdown again.
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Re: Patch 8

Postby wibod » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:43 pm

Banshees are so terrible. I mangled a dudes full fleet of banshees with half the amount of hydras.
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Re: Patch 8

Postby Mucky » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:48 pm

Ricky_Honejasi wrote:I am usually not someone who pokes lore but I wonder why military-wise it would be a good idea to switch from wraiths to vikings and banshees. The only real advantage I can see would be viking's assault mode to become a ground unit to avoid enemy static anti-air defense.

Lore-wise, the Viking was supposed to be the successor to the Goliath. Carriers abusing cliff advantage? No problem, TRANSFORM! It doesn't work out like that in the game because the Viking's ground form can't attack air, so they pretty much stay in the air form 100% of the time.

Terran's anti-air options have taken a huge hit with the lack of a Goliath-like unit. Thors are the closest thing to it, but they're too damn expensive and they can't do shit to Carriers. Or Battlecruisers. Or Brood Lords. You could try Marines, but unless the Carrier/BC/mustache user is completely brain dead they're not going to cut it. Vikings are the only answer. Very bad state of affairs for Terran.

Zerg has kind of the same problem; they don't get any anti-air until Lair tech. Another reason why I think Roaches should just be removed and Hydras moved back to tier 1.5. Zerg already had Zerglings and Hydras as the foundational ground units.

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Re: Patch 8

Postby wibod » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:59 pm

Mucky wrote:
Ricky_Honejasi wrote:I am usually not someone who pokes lore but I wonder why military-wise it would be a good idea to switch from wraiths to vikings and banshees. The only real advantage I can see would be viking's assault mode to become a ground unit to avoid enemy static anti-air defense.

Lore-wise, the Viking was supposed to be the successor to the Goliath. Carriers abusing cliff advantage? No problem, TRANSFORM! It doesn't work out like that in the game because the Viking's ground form can't attack air, so they pretty much stay in the air form 100% of the time.

Terran's anti-air options have taken a huge hit with the lack of a Goliath-like unit. Thors are the closest thing to it, but they're too damn expensive and they can't do shit to Carriers. Or Battlecruisers. Or Brood Lords. You could try Marines, but unless the Carrier/BC/mustache user is completely brain dead they're not going to cut it. Vikings are the only answer. Very bad state of affairs for Terran.

Zerg has kind of the same problem; they don't get any anti-air until Lair tech. Another reason why I think Roaches should just be removed and Hydras moved back to tier 1.5. Zerg already had Zerglings and Hydras as the foundational ground units.

Roachs wouldn't even be that bad as a segway into tier 3 as they are right now.

Toss though are so terrible. The lack of practical and effective AA is infuriating
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Re: Patch 8

Postby WB » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:39 am

Banshees are OP. Seriously, they made it easier to get them, that makes no sense to me. probably to encourage their use. But ya, banshees are so goddamn awesome.

Not being sarcastic either.

Roaches and Hydras need to be swapped. Roaches need to be buffed appropriately.
Colossi need to fire twice as fast but do half the damage a shot.
Vikings need to be able to shoot air and ground in both forms, with the appropriate form granting a bonus (air mode does + versus air, but ground mode isn't totally useless).
Now with 50% more lol, 50% more win, and 100% phlail.
www.sc2campaigns.net - Coming Soon!!

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Re: Patch 8

Postby IskatuMesk » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:12 am

^ lol?
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Re: Patch 8

Postby Mucky » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:46 am

WB wrote:Banshees are OP. Seriously, they made it easier to get them, that makes no sense to me. probably to encourage their use. But ya, banshees are so goddamn awesome.


I love how you just come out of nowhere with this after IskatuMesk gave his insights on the Banshee which I thought was spot on. It loses to pretty much anything that can attack air.

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Re: Patch 8

Postby IskatuMesk » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:19 am

Warbringer is a rebel, he always has to go against the flow y'know, fight the system, bring down the white man in a suit.

He thinks a lot like Blizzard does in that respect. He should go get hired and steal Browder's position.
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Re: Patch 8

Postby Alevice » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:37 am

He brings wars, man, careful with what you do.
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Re: Patch 8

Postby chorale » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:39 am

*mode Tease on*

Special for Mesk :

Orca ? banshee ? it's what you eat for dinner ! even movie have them now ! AVATAR, but there you have multiple version of them, tiny, medium, big, and overgrown ;P  ;D

it's a conspiracy ! haaa ! Soon we will have Airbus ( or Boeing ) with 2-4 vertical engines !

Lol ! 8)

*mode tease off*

More seriously, in the past Marines used to be strong agains Muta and wraith, but less agains Scout ( defense wise ). That gave them some use on later game but now, even upgraded, i see them do.. hum ?.. nothing ? And that is kinda weird because they told us and told us again that " when you see what effort the terran spend in making a marine, you'll understand the power and strenght of the terran " .. That what was mean to be told in the cinematic preview of Sc2.. Well.. i'm sorry. i can understand that those guy wanted to be criminal. EVERYTHING but being a low-grade-inneficient-meatshield piece of a dying marines corps.

i mean, the first unit you can get in tier 1 should... MUST be worth something later on, because for me they represent the purest essence of the race, Terran are human in armor ( marine ), Zergling are feral ravenous animal ( zerg. ) and protoss are stalward warrior that die to defend their race with honor and a code ( protoss ).


But right now let see... marine ? Meatbag and cannon feeder.

Zergling ? Dangerous as hell when upgraded.



Zealot ? their combat skill is so low it is wondering if they want to save their race from extinction after what happened in Sc and BW.

Blizzard need to rebuff Marine and Zealot by a LOT.  A group of marine was worth something in the past, and a group of zealot could take any ground menace given the number and time to close on their target. Ok. they have "charge" now, which is nice, but they still do shit, or are too weakly protected agains other threat.....

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Re: Patch 8

Postby Alevice » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:39 am

Rebuff marines? Considering they are the backbone of the MMM cheese strategy, I say fuccck nooo.
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