Territory Claims

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Territory Claims

Postby Hercanic » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:26 am

Thinking deeper on the Territory Claim chore, I can see the problem isn't the frequency of needing to build them, but that they do not serve any other function. In Starcraft, Supply Depots could be used as walls, Overlords are detectors and transports, and Pylons are needed to build all other structures. In Warcraft III, Farms could be used as walls, Burrows could be used as defense with bunkered Peons, Ziggurates could be upgraded into a turret, and Moon Wells healed and restored mana. All these make investing in supply feel like a worthwhile and helpful investment, and not just something you have to do.

So, I am considering giving the Territory Claim a moderate defensive ability. I am wondering if it should even outright replace the Sentrygun. The one aspect I like about having the Claim be a defensive structure is that you cannot oversaturate your defense nor can you cheese another Human player, both due to the inability to build Claims near other territory structures.

What do you all think?
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Territory Claims

Postby Lavarinth » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:57 am

So now everyone has to deal with Sentryguns scattered all over the land? I don't like it. Also, I assume these wouldn't attack air now, otherwise future races *cough*Observers*cough* would have a much harder time.. Observing, which is their initial income.

I would suggest a different role altogether, what- I'm not sure.
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Territory Claims

Postby ShadowFlare » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:30 pm

If you did go that route, maybe it should be some kind of upgrade?  I don't really know, though.
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Territory Claims

Postby Hercanic » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:06 pm

Yes, I am considering using building morphing, like the old Sentryguns 2-3, though it'd be a little messy.
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Territory Claims

Postby Mucky » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:50 pm

Not having played the new STF very much (I've played a few single player games), the only issue I can imagine Claims posing is that they have to be spread apart. Compare them to Supply Depots; they do nothing but provide supply, but no Terran player has ever complained about that as there are no restrictions to their placement. Your proposed solution to give them a defensive utility would not solve the issue that they need to be built scattered around the map. As a result, this exposes them to enemy attack more easily. I don't know if this is your intention, but this would lead the player into rebuilding Claims whenever he were attacked, and I suppose this is where the frustration starts.

Territory need not be a concrete object in the context of an RTS game. Whether it is SC or WC3, map control has always existed as a psychological factor from expanding and putting pressure on the opponent. With the implementation of Sweatshops and Oil Pumps, "expanding" lost a bit of its emphasis, and I guess it's natural that you'd want to restore that. Territory Claims seem to be too much of an obligation with no real reward.

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Territory Claims

Postby Hercanic » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:21 pm

So the question, then, is what would a suitable reward be?
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Territory Claims

Postby Lavarinth » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:57 pm

If they can upgrade to a sentry gun, I think there should be two upgrades. Sentrygun, or additional resources.

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Last edited by Lavarinth on Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Territory Claims

Postby Hercanic » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:08 pm

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Additional resources in what way?
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Territory Claims

Postby Lavarinth » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:10 pm

Food supply, or help generate income or influence.
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Territory Claims

Postby Hercanic » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:21 pm

Ah, so change a +5 Claim into a +10 Claim or a Sentrygun? I was actually considering lowering the supply a Sentrygun gave, but your idea is far more intuitive. I like it, and it'd reduce the impulse to simply upgrade all Claims into Sentryguns (at least until they get 200 supply). Maybe a third choice to extend beyond 200 supply... I don't want a direct increase to income, as that overlaps with the Shop/Pump without anything new added to the gameplay. It could reduce Taxes, or increase the ceiling for Diminishing Returns. Or a Detector upgrade.

Another idea I'm playing with is giving Claims an energy bar. As this fills, it could be detected by the STF Plugin and do something, representing your control of the land. What it'd do, I haven't figured out yet.


EDIT:
Actually, if I do building morphing with the Claim, I think I'll just have all the territory structures come from it.

Territory Claim: No longer gives supply
--> Sweatshop: Earns Cash, loaded units trade kills for resources.
--> Oil Pump: Earns Influence, loaded units regenerate energy.
--> Garrison: Gives supply, loaded units heal.
--> Sentrygun: Defense.

The Engineer would then only be responsible for Hubs, Airfields, Claims, and Barricades.
Last edited by Hercanic on Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Territory Claims

Postby Omi » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:32 pm

Hercanic wrote:Ah, so change a +5 Claim into a +10 Claim or a Sentrygun? I was actually considering lowering the supply a Sentrygun gave, but your idea is far more intuitive. I like it, and it'd reduce the impulse to simply upgrade all Claims into Sentryguns (at least until they get 200 supply). Maybe a third choice to extend beyond 200 supply... I don't want a direct increase to income, as that overlaps with the Shop/Pump without anything new added to the gameplay. It could reduce Taxes, or increase the ceiling for Diminishing Returns. Or a Detector upgrade.

Another idea I'm playing with is giving Claims an energy bar. As this fills, it could be detected by the STF Plugin and do something, representing your control of the land. What it'd do, I haven't figured out yet.


EDIT:
Actually, if I do building morphing with the Claim, I think I'll just have all the territory structures come from it.

Territory Claim: No longer gives supply
--> Sweatshop: Earns Cash, loaded units trade kills for resources.
--> Oil Pump: Earns Influence, loaded units regenerate energy.
--> Garrison: Gives supply, loaded units heal.
--> Sentrygun: Defense.

The Engineer would then only be responsible for Hubs, Airfields, Claims, and Barricades.

This is the best solution that I've read; gj Lavvy, Herc!

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Territory Claims

Postby Lavarinth » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:32 pm

Yes! I received credit for something!
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