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Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:59 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
Critical Aspects

-> YES - Campaign's storyline is between Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2.

Comments related to the direct scoring

-> + Only some text mistakes there considering the total length of the text written.
-> + Grammar seems fine overall
-> + Text properly formatted for reading
-> + Text modified properly to fit the characters' speech.
-> - Sometimes the campaign doesn't inform of side details that influences your victory or defeat.
-> - The characters' dialogues might not sometimes "feel" like them despite a good effort.
-> ? Since the campaign relies heavily on Starcraft lore, Dread will have to judge if the lore in general is correct or right and in which spots it is lacking.

-> + Extra sounds are added and played at the right time
-> + Campaign heavily based on the original storyline's lore
-> + Have a proper credits section at the end of the campaign
-> + Okay thread updates (More written information but no screenshots or other media)

-> + Functional overall
-> + Commented triggers
-> + Use of switches and locations.
-> - This campaign's triggers are few and too primitive overall
-> - Three critical bugs (two being of the same type and one different, all three likely to occur)
-> - Some other minor bugs/issues


-> + The layout seems very good overall.
-> + Had no trouble maneuvering the maps.


-> + Good overall (looks good but can look rushed and plain at times)
-> - At the beginning, he shows clearly he can put doodads at the right spots but later maps, the author became more lazy or neglicted to the point of barely putting doodads anymore.

===Brownie Points
Note : This doesn't influence directly the scores but might improve it

-> + Probably the campaign that tries the most to fit the gap between Starcraft 1 and 2.
-> + Using Blizzard sounds from the MPQ to minimize the map's file size rather than exporting and importing them normally.
-> + Custom music (although it might feel unfitting at times)

===Drawbacks (outside the score system)
Note : Might potentially influence negatively the campaign's scores.

-> WAY Too many Build & Destroy missions
-> The gameplay was boring due to over-reliance on B&D missions with a big lack of spice in-game (cinematics, mini-games, etc.) , I ended up opening maps for trigger/typo testing rather than playing overall. Mostly just played to test rather than playing for enjoyment.



Bug : For the maps with that feature, allow converting if there is 2+ of a same convertable type of unit instead of forcing the player to only put one on the beacon at a time for it to work.

Suggestion : For the maps with that feature, write the conversion prices in the game menu's mission objectives (especially there is space to write more).

Suggestion : Make the conversionable units stronger or less expansive to convert since the extra gains aren't worth it except to indirectly break through the 200 supply limit.

MAP #1

Issue : Map has no game menu's mission objectives.

Complain : While the briefing somewhat hints at it, it is kind of "out of nowhere" that you can be defeated by losing 15 (yours + allied) marines in the whole map.

Complain : Both the Zerg and the CPU Terran being purple might look odd.

Typo (Briefing) : "protoss" instead of "Protoss"
Typo (Briefing) : "wrry" instead of "worry"

MAP #2

Praise : A simple gameplay setup yet original.

Complain : When Eredas is about to do his last speech, we see the assassin dark templars going into cloak in mid-pause.

Complain : Doesn't properly switch to the 3rd map after victory.

Suggestion : Put observers near yellow's and brown's chockpoints and at the middle of the map. This is preferable to see if there is any battle about to break out considering you can lose if either side destroy another side's building while the player is oblivious.

Typo (Briefing) : "protoss" instead of "Protoss"
Typo (Briefing) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)

MAP #3

Bug : You can destroy a mineral silo owned by the computer without defeat.

Suggestion : Give 200-250 extra gas to allow a extra possibilities since you start without a gas geyser for a considerable while.

Suggestion : Put the conversion platform (beacon) in the back of the base.

Suggestion : Make mineral silo initially invulnerable and then give them without invulnerability. However, inform the player that they must protect the newly acquired silos.

Typo : Map is named as #3 but says #4 in briefing.
Typo : "busniness" instead of "business"

MAP #4

Praise : For the briefing, good use of sounds to hear the battlefield while the marine calls for help.

Praise : Also nice use of sounds for launching Alexei out.

Issue : Would be nice if red CPU was considered fully defeated when it loses all buildings. This is because remaining units might still attack you while the after-mission speech is on.

MAP #5

Bug : Destroying the Hab Factory first before destroying the yellow player (Heralds of Karnage) allows you to pre-win the mission.

Bug : Destroying yellow doesn't trigger their "defeat" message (while it was triggered in the earlier bug).

Typo : "notoriously" instead of "notorious" in "considering they are notorious for [...]"

MAP #6

Critical : Sometimes, the mission doesn't end even if the countdown has finished.

Note : For the critical bug above, this is because the trigger should be "equal or LESS" than one second remaining instead of equal one second. Since triggers fires more or less every two seconds, it might be skipped especially on fastest speed or perphas with saving/loading.

Complain : Without an observer (yours or allied) in the middle, it is too easy for an enemy dark templar to slip in on your nexus (only defenses when it is cloaked are storm and static field).

Odd : The computers having maximum resources (99999999 both gas/minerals) look odd on the victory/defeat screen.

Typo (Briefing) : "protoss" instead of "Protoss"
Typo (Briefing) : "Delpoy" instead of "Deploy"

MAP #7

Bug : Possible to avoid the defeat condition by destroying the physic labs when hovering the science facility.

Note : For above bug, there should be 3 triggers to prevent it.
First being 0 kill of lab for enemy, 2 kills of lab for you.
Second being 1 kill of lab for enemy, 1 kill of lab for you.
Third being 2 kills of lab for enemy, 0 kill of lab for you.

This will be likely to fix that problem all cases except lab dies out of fire from red condition.

Or perhaps same idea but deaths while considering the human player and player 12 (the "AI player" for neutral/abandoned units)

Issue : Conversation prices text stays on screen for a way too short duration.

Issue : No leaderboard to have an idea how many battlecruisers were made.

Issue : "Must be able to build battlecruisers" should cover keeping at least one supply depot "alive".

Typo : "Iron Gelom" instead of "Iron Golem" (for hero goliath's unit name)

Suggestion : Reduce the battlecruiser's cost to 0 mineral/gas but reduce player's total resources by 12000 minerals and 9000 gas so the player knows he/she has X resources solely for defense instead of risking of lacking resources for battlecruiser construction.

Complain : Very boring map overall. Mostly adding some sieged tanks for defense and waiting for all 30 battlecruisers to pop up. Probably should make BCs 2x quicker build and make the AI more aggresive at least.

MAP #8

Bug : Tom Kazansky and Magellan can be killed (by you or enemy) before "rescuing" them without defeat.

Issue : Music seems to replay over itself creating an odd music when you can hear the same music but at multiple "duration times" at the same time.

Typo (Mission) : "currentyl" instead of "currently"

MAP #9

Issue : Map doesn't inform that the Knights of Freedom must survive.

Issue : Map doesn't inform how many prisoners can be lost before considered defeated.

Typo (Briefing) : "Resuce" instead of "Rescue"
Typo (Mission) : "Resuce" instead of "Rescue"

MAP #10

Suggestion : Remove brown's robotic bay to prevent some players being potentially confused at maybe having to destroy brown's robotic building.

Typo (Briefing) : "executor" instead of "Executor"
Typo (Mission) : "obeserves" instead of "observers"

MAP #11

Critical : Same countdown issue as map #6.

Praise : At least a bit of diversity in play.

Odd : Loading a save in mission start grant you a victory somehow (at least it did for me).

Issue : Game menu's objectives doesn't update to mention the crashed ship must not be destroyed.

Issue : Killing one of purple's units doesn't make purple turn against you before going into the wreckage (considering he turns against you anyway).

Typo (Briefing) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg"

MAP #12

Critical : Destroying any of the three computers triggers a defeat to you (victory for the defeated computer instead of a defeat for the defeated computer).

MAP #12.5

Praise : Some nice shooting sounds on the CEOs.

MAP #14

Bug : Science Vessel's conversion gas is 125 in theory but subtracts 175 gas instead of 125.

Typo (Briefing) : "surviive" instead of "survive"
Typo (Briefing) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)

MAP #15

Typo (Briefing) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)
Typo (Briefing) : "perimenter" instead of "perimeter"
Typo (Mission) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)

MAP #16

Typo (Briefing) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)
Typo (Mission) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)

MAP #17

Odd : There is simply NO map #17 despite an obvious numbering system of maps.

MAP #18

Issue : The game should be paused during the dialog between Raynor and Mengsk. Meanwhile, you get attacked by the enemy which distract.

Complain : There should be a note that you will gain minerals from kills and you can train more troops and research upgrades.

Complain : Having brown player with +3/+3 upgrades while you starting with 0/0 make it very hard for a beginning especially when your maximum is +1/+1.

Typo (Briefing) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)
Typo (Mission) : "possibilites" instead of "possibilities"
Typo (Mission) : "xel'naga" instead of "Xel'naga"

MAP #20

Typo (Briefing) : "Destory" instead of "Destroy"
Typo (Briefing) : "protoss" instead of "Protoss"
Typo (Mission) : "protoss" instead of "Protoss"
Typo (Mission) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)
Typo (Mission) : "xel'naga" instead of "Xel'naga"


Praise : Decent epilogue for all the main characters involved.

Praise : Credits section at the end.

Typo (Briefing) : "activites" instead of "activities" (Arcturus)

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:27 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
Krazy wrote:What happened to map #13?

In general, if I omit a specific map in the report, it means I got nothing to report about it.

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:48 pm
by thebrowncloud
Since I will be playing other people's campaigns and reviewing them, production on HoP Extended/Edited Edition will be put off until I am done. We will resume in about three weeks (depending on how long it takes me to play all the campaigns and write the reviews). We will be starting a new thread for a fresh start once we begin. Again, we will be shooting for a November release date, but we make no guarantees. Could be earlier. Could be later. Who knows? Tim might.

This time, we'll have videos and screenshots! w00t!  ;D

And again, any reviews, criticism, etc. would be highly appreciated and would likely have an affect on the production of HoPE/EE. After Ricky's report, we (or at least I) feel like our campaign has been violated on so many levels in terms of triggers, so finding bugs might be hard, but if you spot any new ones, thanks in advance! Questions that I have posed about the story (all of which are matters of opinion, I believe) are still posted above and it would be greatly appreciated if you could answer some. We might change some things around to make it more appealing.

Happy hunting!

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:20 am
by Legion
Ricky_Honejasi wrote:
Typo (Briefing) : "protoss" instead of "Protoss"
Typo (Briefing) : "zerg" instead of "Zerg" (?)

Typo (Mission) : "xel'naga" instead of "Xel'naga"

Blizzard actually spells the names of the races without capital letters ( for reference) and they do so systematically.  They spelled them with capitals all through Starcraft 1, but chose not to for the new wave of SC media.  I remember some other sci-fi universe typing one race's name without capital, and they did so because they wanted to convey the message that it wasn't a proper name anymore but rather a term or a concept or whatever.  For effect, no doubt.

Anyway, I think this shouldn't be considered a typo.

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:01 am
by chris
Played it, got bored by mission 3 and stopped. I've played waaaaay too many B&D campaigns in my time so this just bored me. mission 1 despite needing a few improvements was a huge amount of fun.

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:40 am
by thebrowncloud
chris wrote:Played it, got bored by mission 3 and stopped. I've played waaaaay too many B&D campaigns in my time so this just bored me. mission 1 despite needing a few improvements was a huge amount of fun.

Yeah, we got that complaint from Ricky, too. We're working on it. Some of the B&D missions will get redone, but I can't say all of them will. We will also be expanding each story arc by at least one mission and we will make sure that they aren't B&D missions (if possible). However, considering that we are trying to convey the idea of everyone still being at war, you might still get bored cause we can't get rid of ALL of the B&D missions.

We're really glad that you liked 1, though. That is one of our favorites (and, to be honest, I think the music adds alot to the experience for that particular mission). Some complaints that we (or at least I) have with it is that the waves on the base you need to rescue don't seem often enough. In fact, the entire map doesn't really seem frantic enough. So (just as a heads up) the extended version will feature alot more "third party conflict" and attacks on the base will be more frequent and vary from where they come from.  :)

EDIT: However, I have some other campaign ideas brewing in the old noodle that could end up avoiding B&D missons, mostly, so I hope you'll be willing to try some of our future material. :)

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:14 pm
by thebrowncloud
chris wrote:mission 1 despite needing a few improvements was a huge amount of fun.

I have some good news! In regards to this comment and also our deep desire to expand on nearly every character, we will be including an arc that is primarily missions like map 1. Can you guess which character the arc will focus on? It's really not hard, considering there aren't many characters in SC that work in small numbers. I'm hoping that those of you who played the original and were disappointed will be willing to give it another chance next time around.  :)

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:14 pm
by thebrowncloud
Krazy wrote:Mission 1 was fun but I think part of the enjoyment was that it stood out from the rest of the campaign.  I think that (if all your triggers worked) you would have done a fair amount to mix up regular b&d, but sometimes "event-driven" missions are fun to. 

Yeah, the triggers really ruined everything, but we will be putting more missions like mission 1 in so that we might attract the audience that is similar to chris so that we might be able to got a more well-rounded following. I have no doubt that what you say about mission 1 is true, but some people just flat out don't like B&D missions. Adding more in-game dialogue should also make things a little more enjoyable, but not excessive amounts.

Krazy wrote:I think that the way you handle plot, you really would do well to explore a wider range of mission types.  Staying neutral with well-known custom maps, I would suggest perhaps looking at some of "Life of a Marine," "Aeon of the Hawk," or the final campaign of "Doodan" even.  You don't have to make every map zomg-hard, expunge the iscript.bin, or spend a gajillion hours with hypertriggers, but sometimes it is fun to immerse yourself in a starcraft world or ship, feel like you're talking to people, and explore the character of the world through something other than briefings and objectives.

We will definitely be looking extensively at other campaigns for some new mission types. I'll be sure to take a look at the ones you mentioned (as soon as I'm done with playing the contest campaigns, that is). And, like I said above, we will be doing more in-game dialogue to help strengthen the experience. However, how do you mean by "feel like you're talking to people'? Do you mean do a first-person, PC style? I've done that kind of thing in the past, but it just didn't seem apropriate for this particular campaign.

Krazy wrote:I would also say to keep playing and reviewing and talking about what you like in the campaigns in this contest, but also to open up the editor and look at how different people organize their triggers and events.  Don't plagiarize, but don't be afraid to explore.
Will do. So far, I have liked the style that Laconius did where there are multiple different scenarios in a single map. We'll have to experiment with that style, but perhaps at a later date. We are a little too far into this campaign already to be changing the style now.

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:38 am
by thebrowncloud
Postin' with ma Wii!

But yeah, I like your ideas. I could definitely do something like that with 12 and 12.5, but 3 and 3.5 would be a little tough. The only thing I can think of for those two is to expand the bit of info added to the story from 3.5 to a full mission around it and leave 3 close to the way it is now.

What I meant by us being "too far to change the style" was that it was too late to be changing the campaign to something more like Laconius'. That would involve redesigning a lot of maps which I already know Tim won't want to do. And I sure as hell don't!  :P

But, since we are talking about stealth missions so openly, I might as well come out and say who the arc with missions like 1 is: Nova! But this isn't the same arc that we were hinting at at the end of our campaign, so there is still another one scheduled (at least). ;)

Since the Nova thing is out of the bag now, does anyone know where I can get a Nova portrait, voice set, and unit? A Kerrigan sprite with blonde hair would work fine, too.

Damn, writing a post that long on the Wii is tiresome....... *huff huff*

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:27 pm
by omega20
thebrowncloud wrote:Since the Nova thing is out of the bag now, does anyone know where I can get a Nova portrait, voice set, and unit? A Kerrigan sprite with blonde hair would work fine, too.

Image by Jasen

Image by Rezon

Image by Joel, modified by Daelin

Image by Milldawg

Image by Cynon

I hope one of these can be useful for you. Don't forgive to give credits to their creators. Cheers! ;)

EDIT: About the unit, there was a Kerrigan's sprite with blonde hair on Maplantis. Before it closed, I downloaded it, and I should have it somewhere around my computer. I'll upload it as soon as I find it. ;)

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:04 pm
by thebrowncloud
Thanks, omega! I think a kerrigan portrait with blonde hair would work perfectly. I hope you can find it!  :)

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:12 pm
by Church

Re: StarCraft: Hands of Power -- Completed!

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:39 pm
by thebrowncloud
Thanks much, sir! Those portraits are a huge help! Omega actually sent us a blond ghost sprite as well, but its always good to have more than one source in case the download for the other fails or something.  ;)