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Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:48 pm
by Dem0nS1ayer
The stuttering problem isn't a big deal at all.  It only happened to me like 3 or 4 times in maps 3 and 4.

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:18 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
So here's my first tested campaign log :

Critical Aspect

-> YES - Campaign's storyline is between Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2.

Comments related to the direct scoring

Text
-> + Barely any text mistakes
-> + Grammar seems fine overall
-> + Informs the player correctly of events.
-> + Text properly formatted for reading
-> + Text modified properly to fit the characters' speech.
-> - Some mission objectives in game menu in the early maps show up disformed (due to tabs).

Professional
-> + Extra sounds are added and played at the right time
-> + Nice additional tie for the Starcraft story using Jim Raynor's default speech voices properly.
-> + Have a proper credits section at the end of the campaign
-> - Thread updates seems a bit weak, especially no screenshots or anything special or spectacular.

Triggering
-> + Good overall and functional overall. No critical bugs.
-> + High use of switches and locations.
-> - Some minor bugs/issues (mostly related to Reverie energy recharge from vespene geysers).

Mapping - Layout

-> + Terrain looks "logical" for the terrain type of each map.
    Example : Desert have more debris, some bases have some road setups and so on.
-> + Barely had trouble maneuvering the maps (the few times were due to more natural checkpoints).

Mapping - Beauty

-> + Decent overall (looks good, doesn't look rushed, terrain isn't "plain")
-> + Very nice placement of doodads such as debris at the right places, etc.

Other generic details

Brownie Points
Note : This doesn't influence directly the scores but might improve it.

-> + First version released 1 week before schedule
-> + Some graphical modding for the characters' faces.
-> + Decent voice acting overall
-> + Custom music
-> + A hard difficulty setting for those that want more challenge.
-> + Interesting story with philosophy thrown in as an author's personal flavor.

Drawbacks (normally outside the score system)
Note : Might potentially influence negatively the campaign's scores.

-> - Campaign very short (just three maps of gameplay essentially)
-> - Campaign seems to be more of a teaser than a campaign in the grand scheme of things.
-> - Some voice sounds do repeat their last 1-2 seconds at their end.
-> - For normal difficulty at least, difficulty ends up being too easy or too hard depending on the maps thus there is no balanced normal difficulty through the campaign.

Individual maps

MAP #1

-> Bug : Jack Anderson's energy doesn't recover with the secondary Vespene Geyser when it comes to the assault part.
-> Bug : Jack Anderson said "leaving, leaving" instead of "leaving" in audio at some point.
-> Complain : This map's gameplay is ridiculously easy and boring to hell if you have the "perfect" formation for defense in Normal difficulty. Essentially waiting that the map ends up and just changing the formation a bit when new units arrive.

MAP #2

-> Praise : Overall good usage of Jim Raynor's campaign voices/dialog to fit the campaign's story while using the character to connect to the official storyline in addition of giving a possible reason for Jim Raynor's "downfall".
-> Praise : Interesting indirect "mini-game" to use science vessels along with the Reverie's energy recharge from vespene geysers to change the tide of battle.
-> Typo : lacks "on" between "not" and "the" in the dialogue part "not *on* the strength of God." (said vocally by Anderson at the bunker).
-> Bug : Jack Anderson's energy doesn't recover with the initial Vespene Geyser. Even if he is not used in the main battles in this map, it is inconsistent with his supposed ability to be not able to.
  NOTE : That seems mostly because the locations around them are too small thus Anderson cannot be "near enough" in most cases.

-> Oddie : Looks a bit odd to recharge energy when it is from a Zerg Extractor. But I guess it can still pass as being near vespene gas.
-> Issue : In mission objectives in game menu, it looks odd and disformed (due to tabs). Both sets of mission objectives (before and after Jack reaches the base) have the same issue.
-> Issue : It's possible to kill the non-invincible purple Protoss Templar without consequences of any kind (red & white players don't even assist if they are out of reach) after Jack Anderson comes back to the bunker.
-> Complain : It is perfectly possible in normal difficulty to not lift a single finger to win the battle after Anderson comes back to the bunker. Bunk up SCV and Anderson then put the science vessels in allied computer base and let the computers win over time.
  NOTE : Yes, I actually loaded the map in multiplayer and minimized it so I could just let it run over time.

MAP #3

-> Complain : Now that map can end up very hard (in normal difficulty) especially when the enemy starts to nuke you there and there (which you will probably miss a ghost or two).
-> Bug : "Mission complete" can show twice in a row despite being already shown once (happens after the after-battle story).
-> Complain : Can be still difficult to recharge energy via Reverie unless you move non-aerial units only to the north of the Vespene Geysers.


MAP #4
-> Complain : While I understand that it is the main teaser for your SC2 campaign, it might be nice to have at least a very vague explanation as why Anderson throws himself into this (mostly as some kind of mini-conclusion of the campaign).
-> Issue : "stop there ... there" heard vocally (don't remember which character).

MAP #5
-> Praise : Reserved map for credits rather than quickly fitting the credits in some other map.
-> Minor Praise : A nice little touch with zerglings making text on the mini-map (not seen unless you open the map in StarEdit or you use the map revealing cheat).
-> Typo : Map is numbered as #4 instead of #5 in its map title in the map selection.

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:09 pm
by Dem0nS1ayer
Ricky_Honejasi wrote:-> YES - Campaign does spawn over four years


I thought it only had to be between the four years, and not through all four years... O_o

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:47 pm
by Ricky_Honejasi
Krazy wrote:Yeah, wasn't there a lengthy discussion about this not only in the discussion thread but also in Laconius's thread?  It has to be "somewhere in the 4 years".


I guess I forgot about that part since I didn't follow the current changes that well until the contest's end was really near.

So ill remove that part off the log about Desler's campaign.

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:45 pm
by Maglok
Well he is the judge. I got a feeling what he meant was 3 good maps is good, but 5 good maps would be better. ;)

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:42 am
by Ricky_Honejasi
Well, while quality over quantity is better. However, a campaign can just feel too short.

In Desler's case, I felt too much of a "done already?" feeling when completing the campaign in normal difficulty. Some can argue that you can re-do it in hard difficulty thus "increasing the length" but I consider it more of an artificial extension rather than a real extension of the campaign.

Do note that I noted it under "drawbacks" and not under the main sections. Thus if it will be of real consideration, we will see. However, probably making it that way (but better quality) would help him more than hurt him overall.

EDIT : Do note that as a judge and tester, I WILL complain about various aspects including this one.

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:27 am
by Marco
Looks like you got to everything Ricky.  I hope you did get a chance to try out the hard modes.  There is a slight bit more content in there then there is in the regular modes.  Normal mode might of been a bit too easy, as I probably devoted a bit too much time to the hard modes.  It's definitely something I'll consider in the future.

In regards to 'thread updates seem a bit weak - no screenshots', did you see the original post?  Had a couple there.  All the relevant updates were posted there too, it has a weekly log of my progress.  My goal for this campaign wasn't to build hype, but rather to follow the criteria set forth for this contest.  I'm not concerned on this point however, as in comparison to others, they did have videos and several screenshots.  I firmly believed however that I wanted to leave almost any gameplay and story to complete surprise.  In retrospect, an audio trailer might of been something I would consider.  A video might also be nice, but then I'd have to get into the editing and everything and then there goes my KISS philosophy.  ;) 

The rest I pretty much agree with entirely.  Thanks for the critique.

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:33 am
by Legion
Desler wrote:Looks like you got to everything Ricky.  I hope you did get a chance to try out the hard modes.  There is a slight bit more content in there then there is in the regular modes.  Normal mode might of been a bit too easy, as I probably devoted a bit too much time to the hard modes.  It's definitely something I'll consider in the future.

In regards to 'thread updates seem a bit weak - no screenshots', did you see the original post?  Had a couple there.  All the relevant updates were posted there too, it has a weekly log of my progress.  My goal for this campaign wasn't to build hype, but rather to follow the criteria set forth for this contest.  I'm not concerned on this point however, as in comparison to others, they did have videos and several screenshots.  I firmly believed however that I wanted to leave almost any gameplay and story to complete surprise.  In retrospect, an audio trailer might of been something I would consider.  A video might also be nice, but then I'd have to get into the editing and everything and then there goes my KISS philosophy.   ;) 

The rest I pretty much agree with entirely.  Thanks for the critique.


Personally, I think you maintained a pretty cool updating system. No unnecessary information. Your screenshots were cool because they showed you were really spending time on terrain. What I look for in updates is a sneak preview of people's strengths. You told us you were going to voice it, and this generated questions... Is Joel going to lend his voice for several big roles again? Is Desler finally going to voice act himself?

I agree, videos are nice, but they generally give away too much or too little. Same with a large number of screenshots.

All in all, I thought Sweet Science was fucking awesome. Who cares about updates? :D

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:44 pm
by Maglok
Updates tend to create a sort of hype that can usually not actually be met by the final product. I think Desler's way was quite good. Updates, but not huge hype. :)

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:37 pm
by Marco
Humans are predictable.

Re: Celestial Reverie: The Sweet Science - Completed

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:37 pm
by chris
I finished playing it:

The good:
voicing
mapping
story
variety
gameplay
etc
etc
pretty much everything is great with one notable exception

the bad:
too short

Overall, this is without doubt the best campaign of this competition I've played so far. In fact, I'm going to replay it, this time on hard mode.

I'm pretty confident in my self when I say you are going to win something.


all I have left to play is echoes and vile egression and replay ATAI.