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Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:38 pm
by tipereth
Can we get a standard stardate or something for the end of brood war? That would make it alot easier to express what time it is if you dont plan on going in chronological order.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:41 pm
by Lavarinth
TheProgramer wrote:Yeah so I have a stupid question that I hope isnt going to kill me.  I have been working on my Campaign for a couple years and I have been using pre-made maps that came with StarCraft and BroodWar.  I change pretty much everything but the terrain (perhaps make a few small changes).  I was wondering if this disqualifies me, gives me a 0 on the scorecard for Mapping, or if it is to my credit for using old maps in new creative ways?  I didn't see anything in the rules that would have this disqualify me but I figure, better safe than sorry.  I so hope I am not disqualified, because changing the terrain completely would suck sicne i have integrated all my tiggers and everything already.  But what will come will come.


For actual maps from the campaign storyline: Using unoriginal maps previously seen will not grand you a score for terraining, obviously, as you did not create the map. Any triggers used from the map will not be counted into the score, and deduct for lack of originality. Same goes for any transmission of old maps. All of this is only based on if you are simply reusing the maps for the sake of not designing your own maps. However, if you are using a map to effectively tell your story and have a visit back to an old location or the such, this is a different situation, but by the sound of it, that's not what you are doing.

For maps designed for melee use: These will surely ineffectively be used in a story, as they are designed for balance and competative gaming. They will not gain much point in Beauty (non if you did not design it) and due to the fact they are not your creation, gain no points in terrain.

The terrain category is a total of 20 points, 40% of all points. The reason for this is terrain design is the most basic skill in StarEdit, and the easiest to master. This will not affect locations in your maps, only unit placement. To effectively create your own terrain will not demolish your map, only require you to replace units.

It is not a disqualification, it is a notation that you simply will not receive points as they are flat out not your own work.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:00 pm
by Lavarinth
tipereth wrote:Can we get a standard stardate or something for the end of brood war? That would make it alot easier to express what time it is if you dont plan on going in chronological order.


June 2501 is the end of Brood War, for a time line:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Timeline

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:11 am
by Ricky_Honejasi
Just that I don't come out of nowhere for judgment time, I will also be a judge for the contest.

Compared to the previous contest, I will post positive and negative points in addition of a "bugs/problems list" of what I found. However, I won't post any scores of my own opinion since it's Lavarinth that will ultimately decide and tell the final official scores about it although I will have an influence in the grand scheme of things.

Although for rules and such, it's solely Lavarinth who will decide that and I usually don't have much to say anyway when it comes to that aspect.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:16 pm
by poiuy_qwert
I think you missed my question:
poiuy_qwert wrote:So making a mod and the aspects of the mod don't effect your score?

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:31 pm
by Lavarinth
poiuy_qwert wrote:I think you missed my question:
poiuy_qwert wrote:So making a mod and the aspects of the mod don't effect your score?



Lavarinth wrote:
poiuy_qwert wrote:So making a mod and the aspects of the mod don't effect your score?


Not officially, but they can help with the professionalism category and also increase your chances of breaking the tie in your favor if a tie were to occur. You know me, I encourage it, and I am a judge for the projects. ;D


I <3 modifications.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:40 pm
by poiuy_qwert
Wow I could have sworn that wasn't there earlier ;P

What if part/most of the mod was adding custom trigger conditions/actions and other things (tileset modding) specifically for the mapping aspect of the campaign, will those effect the triggers and mapping sections of the mark?

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:43 pm
by Lavarinth
Beauty is simple how gorgeous you can make the map. One could use the basic editor to make this occur, and one can step into new boundaries by using the tools out there supplied to them to make something equally as beautiful. Layout is the function of the map, which tends to work hand in hand with beauty. Make sure the terrain does not interfere players, triggers, or function. Also included in this aspect is symmetry, nothing in the world is symmetrical except man-created objects, which is why using a melee map would not grant you high points, as an example.

In terms of the trigger aspect of the mod, whatever you create in your triggers is fine so long as it functions and isn't "bloated." Bloated being an excessive amount of flashy triggers that weren't really necessary and just added for no real reason. It's hard to create something bloated, but an example would be a map which dictated to destroy the enemy computer, however while walking around you spot unrelative, random, submissions such as "catch the Zergling" and it does not relate to the story at all as this map would have no Zerg in it, and completing this mission yields no adjustment to the storyline.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:22 am
by l)ark_ssj9kevin
Gah. Does it need to be single player? :C

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:52 pm
by Lavarinth
Preferably yes, if it is not single-player, then note that it will only be played by one player, not the suggested amount.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:26 pm
by Marco
Campaign Creations wrote: It may be portrayed through one, two, or all three of the races, [i]and must result in a period of four years. (You may use time lapse such as "one year later" in your story such to pace through the timeline faster.)


I'm curious as to why Campaign Creations has this specific requirement in this contest - why the campaigns have to result in a period of four full years?  I understand that is the length of time between Brood War and StarCraft 2, and it is in fact interesting to speculate what might of happened between those years.  But making the creator having to cover the full four years, even if summarized at parts, seems like an unusual choice, and almost seems like a creative restriction of sorts.  Restricting the time period between those years is a good idea, but making it to where each story has to have some relevance for four full years isn't.  I'm sure many people would like to pick one point in time and just work at that, within the four years.  I think it opens up the creative possibilities a bit more, and people would still have the option to make it span four full years if they wished.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:51 am
by Ricky_Honejasi
I presume Lavarinth added that requirement that to please Blizzard somehow since after all, he managed to get his hands on the beta cd-keys. Another possibility I might think is maybe to put creators more into creating campaigns of a transition type towards SC2.

To the worst, it might be for the sake of having some special requirement even if it might be somewhat counterproductive.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:05 am
by Legion
Desler wrote:
Campaign Creations wrote: It may be portrayed through one, two, or all three of the races, [i]and must result in a period of four years. (You may use time lapse such as "one year later" in your story such to pace through the timeline faster.)


I'm curious as to why Campaign Creations has this specific requirement in this contest - why the campaigns have to result in a period of four full years?  I understand that is the length of time between Brood War and StarCraft 2, and it is in fact interesting to speculate what might of happened between those years.  But making the creator having to cover the full four years, even if summarized at parts, seems like an unusual choice, and almost seems like a creative restriction of sorts.  Restricting the time period between those years is a good idea, but making it to where each story has to have some relevance for four full years isn't.  I'm sure many people would like to pick one point in time and just work at that, within the four years.  I think it opens up the creative possibilities a bit more, and people would still have the option to make it span four full years if they wished.






I think it's a big restriction too. If we weren't allowed to skip ahead in time, it'd be an impossible task even. However, like Ricky, I think Lav HAD to do this.

What worries me most is that dispite Starcraft's an underdeveloped universe, there's only so many things you can think of to do. We know where Jim Raynor ends up in the beginning of Starcraft 2. We know about Zeratul. That's a restriction. I don't know if you're required to read up on Starcraft 2's lore, but I'm afraid that a lot of campaigns are going to tie it up the same way, and it's gonna look forced.

I like "after Brood War" campaigns, but "after Brood War and before SC2" is going to be one hell of challenge!

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:07 am
by Marco
Laconius wrote:I couldn't have said this more clearly.  I can understand that Lav might want to please Blizzard, but that's equivalent to singing a lullaby to an aborted child.  Imo, Blizzard's standards suck SO bad.  Their story might be somewhat decent, but the way they portray it map-wise is hair-pullingly depressing.  Take a look at their original campaigns for Christ's sake; 90% build and destroy OVER AND OVER again.  Forgive me if I am mistaken... but you wish to please the idiots who drafted this mess?


Easy there.  Even they themselves have said that StarCraft 2 will have many more varied mission types beyond the standard build and destroy.  They didn't want the player getting bored and feel like they were doing the same task over and over again.  I doubt Blizzard put forth any requirements when they donated the key, especially some weird 'having to use all 4 years' rule.  Sounds more like an unusual decision by Lavarinth himself.

Re: Campaign Creations StarCraft Campaign Contest Details

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:00 am
by Legion
Laconius wrote:
Desler wrote:
Laconius wrote:I couldn't have said this more clearly.  I can understand that Lav might want to please Blizzard, but that's equivalent to singing a lullaby to an aborted child.  Imo, Blizzard's standards suck SO bad.  Their story might be somewhat decent, but the way they portray it map-wise is hair-pullingly depressing.  Take a look at their original campaigns for Christ's sake; 90% build and destroy OVER AND OVER again.  Forgive me if I am mistaken... but you wish to please the idiots who drafted this mess?


Easy there.  Even they themselves have said that StarCraft 2 will have many more varied mission types beyond the standard build and destroy.  They didn't want the player getting bored and feel like they were doing the same task over and over again.  I doubt Blizzard put forth any requirements when they donated the key, especially some weird 'having to use all 4 years' rule.  Sounds more like an unusual decision by Lavarinth himself.


Well, my statement there was more or less meant to emphasize Blizzard's effect on SC/BW's custom campaign makers.  A good pocket of potential mappers feel the need to make their maps "Blizzard-esque" with a similar format to the original campaigns.  The outcome?
A myriad of B&D missions with no end in sight.  So despite the new standards of SC2, the fact remains that they've provided a terrible example to members of the campaigning community.


True. This community has shown us what's REALLY possible.