Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.64a released!


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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.60a released!

Postby muaddib » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:16 am

that sure would be nice and fully apprecited :)
btw, i assume it requires a sort of program mastery to create cinematics, triggers, spells and so forth?

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.60a released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:11 am

muaddib wrote:that sure would be nice and fully apprecited :)
btw, i assume it requires a sort of program mastery to create cinematics, triggers, spells and so forth?


Not exactly but it sure require that talent or the knowledge to do it right (other than just pure basics) for each domain. Note that most things can be done in the WorldEdit alone without external programs or really advanced knowledge.

CINEMATICS
For cinematics, it often require that kind of "camera talent" if you really want to shine in it. Instead of just plain text transmissions between two heroes and such, I remember seeing some decent snow-like effect with Dread Lords slowly moving away and slowly vanishing. Another case was the night-like setting, darkened trees with black grunts moving behind the trees for an ambush against a human town. Fires everywhere on the human buildings, trees and such plus it doesn't look weird in any way.

CINEMATICS - EXTENSIONS
Having modeling skills sure allow you to extend aesthetic cinematic possibilities (so you are not stuck with core game's models) but you can manage quite many cinematic possibilities without it.

While triggering skills usually allow more special camera control and advanced cinematic actions (ex : guy move in front, explosions blew, guy "flies" half-dead far away in front, camera spins with first-person view of said guy, buildings explode with added explosion effects and so on.)

TRIGGERING
While most people can manage the simple triggering to semi-advanced, it usually need decent logic and/or programmer training to truly make it shine since you can do a lot from triggering : complex maps, "game-in-a-game" settings and many kinds of unusual maps.

Fortunately, triggering is simplified as much as possible in WorldEdit while giving the most possibilities out of it. It's tough at first (heck, I got a programmer background and I had to use 2 weeks just to adjust to WorldEdit's triggering system) but as soon you can understand the various basics, you can actually go far.

It's also a prerequisite for making triggered new spells. Otherwise, you are rather stuck to just use the very same ones with a different description and different values.

TRIGGERING - EXTENSIONS

Modeling can be useful to add graphics to various triggering aspects. For example, a "Ray of Light" triggered spell might look better if it got a more believable custom model of a light ray (which the closest in-game alternatives are Shockwave's beta version graphic and Chain Lighting's effects).

Sometimes modeling can also make a heavy triggered map more "logical" : if you make a turn-based square-gridded map, it might better to make those square models for the ground along with other special models that would fit your gameplay better than anything else.

MODELING

Unfortunately, modeling do require experience in modeling programs and such if you want to go anywhere. In addition, it requires external programs plus the trouble to properly convert your model for Warcraft 3 to use.

The good news is you don't need modeling to make maps at all since modeling is eye-candy but little substance otherwise (a bunch of models with no triggers, terrain, cinematics nor anything else don't go anywhere in terms of gameplay).

OTHER THINGS

Okay, I really didn't cover everything (ex : terraining, sound editing, etc.) and I am probably missing quite a few things but you probably get an idea of what it takes for each more influential domain.

Remember, almost nobody is skilled in everything. Personally, I would have an A grade for triggering, a D in cinematics, a E in terraining, a E in sound editing and a F in modeling. That's why my tutorials tend to be triggering-focused.


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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.60a released!

Postby muaddib » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:17 am

you didnt cover everything?
hehe, from what it seems you replied already on possible further questions XD
nonetheless, nice to know what type of requirements are advised per system.


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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.60a released!

Postby Chaosbringer312 » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:41 pm

It would be really cool to see how you managed the space ships movement in you're Starforce map.

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.60a released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:21 am

Chaosbringer312 wrote:It would be really cool to see how you managed the space ships movement in you're Starforce map.


Well, first of all, I didn't made Starforce, it is Aiursrage2k that did it based on someone else's map that he gave credit for. The only thing I did was to re-adapt the map to be played on newer versions of Warcraft 3 since some of the tricks were dependent on "glitches" on older versions of Warcraft 3.

Second, the map is unprotected so you can open it in WorldEdit and learn from it. However, I believe it was either a constant re-order of the ship to move left/right and then a position re-facing top when it isn't moving ... or a constant instant-move of the ship while re-facing the unit top all the time.

However, I have to warn about one thing about this map : Aiursrage2k did use the game cache as a mass data keeper (saving & loading data constantly) instead of the more normal use of keeping data into the game cache to load it in the next map (usually for hero transfers between campaign's maps).

EDIT : Ah dammit, I just remembered that Aiursrage2k probably made most of his map into JASS (code-like triggering instead of normal GUI triggering) so it might be a pain to learn it at this stage. But yeah, the basic trick is told in my paragraphs above.
Last edited by Ricky_Honejasi on Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.60a released!

Postby Chaosbringer312 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:58 am

Yeah, a good half of it is converted over and at this stage of the game, I have no idea whats going on there. Its good to know the general theory behind it though. I've found a tutorial on youtube that essentially does the same thing, but it also breaks all the other functions of the unit at the same time.

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.60a released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:36 am

Chaosbringer312 wrote:Yeah, a good half of it is converted over and at this stage of the game, I have no idea whats going on there. Its good to know the general theory behind it though. I've found a tutorial on youtube that essentially does the same thing, but it also breaks all the other functions of the unit at the same time.


It's kind of tricky to do it since most people probably don't know that when you order an unit via a trigger, the unit MUST be inactive order-wise. So the solution is usually to give the order "stop" (the only order an unit can accept in mid-order of something) to render it inactive THEN give the order you want. Fortunately, a stop order + whatever order you want right after another in a same trigger is easy to do and do works.

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.61 released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:10 pm

Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper was updated to v0.61.

You can get it here.

A few extra tutorial maps but they concern an important step stone for triggering : loops and array variables. Master them and you can ease a good deal of burden in typical triggering in addition of being able to do more advanced triggering. However, the other unexplained variables are still not explained yet.

====v0.61 changes===-

Added Episode 3-4 which explains how loops works in addition of some practical uses.
Added Episode 3-5 which explains how array variable mode works in addition of some practical uses.
Added Episode 3-XX1 which explains a badly odd error that can occur if you use loops and wait actions incorrectly.

====v0.60b changes====

Added a note for tutorial maps 0-1 to 0-X4 about patching their game to the latest version.
Otherwise some newbies cannot load the maps before they didn't patch at all.

Also added a text file note called "Patching your game.txt" in case some newbies got really old versions
of Warcraft 3 and can't even load the simplest maps.
Last edited by Ricky_Honejasi on Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.61 released!

Postby Chaosbringer312 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:13 pm

Thanks so much! My friends and I really appreciate this.

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.61 released!

Postby Lavarinth » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:07 pm

I'll be looking over this one as well.
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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.61 released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:55 am

Since loops and variable arrays can be complex, I would like feedback on how easy/hard it was to learn from the tutorials in addition of whatever suggestions you do have.

I take those parts more seriously under consideration since it's one of the few parts that it can be really hard to properly learn by guesswork unlike almost all the rest of the triggers that are self-explanatory or that require to mess around enough until you understand it and learn it.


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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.61 released!

Postby muaddib » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:07 am

i shall look into it asap as well  :)

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.61 released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:22 am

Still hoping for some feedback about the maps I mentioned.

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.61 released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:09 pm

An update after quite a long time.

====v0.62 changes====

Added Episode 4-XX1 which explains how to create a dialog and some possibilities with it.

Reduced the tutorial maps' filenames since Warcraft v1.23 became much more intolerant of long filenames of maps or something (which caused that almost all tutorial maps didn't show up in the map list).

====================

I might as well take the opportunity to ask the following : If you have WorldEdit questions, feel free to ask since there can be a tutorial map made to answer it and explain it in detail.

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Re: Wc3NewbieMapper-to-Wc3CompetentMapper v0.63 released!

Postby Ricky_Honejasi » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:42 pm

====v0.63 Changes====

Added Episode 4-XX3 which explains how to use multiboards.

====V0.62a changes====

Added Episode 4-2 which explains how to use timers.
Added Episode 4-XX2 which explains how to use special effects.


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