Loladins of Legend

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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:35 pm

Changes in versions LoladinCocks20 thus far (Adding as I go along), including ones I did before, and ones I plan to do soon:

- Isadorian Cannon Garrisons no longer have an attack or provide a move/attackspeed bonus to allies. They do, however, still receive incremental health upgrades and act as teleportation hubs.
- Inanity mode is no longer optional.
- Inanity mode is about to become much more inane.
- There are now world bosses. I need to devise a respawn system.
- I believe I devised a way to allow the Doackmaster and Captain Planet to engage players from great distances and pick and choose between random enemy heroes. I have no idea how to make a randomization trigger, though.
- There are now Waygates linking the two outter lanes. Find them, and beware of their protectors!
- There are now Waygates linking several other locations. Find them, and OH JESUS CHRIST
- There will now be event music and some voice acting.
- There shall be a lot of new graphics, yoinked from my defunct ET campaign, including a new Loladin hero graphic, and a bunch HKS converted, including lots of dragons (some of which I customized further).
- I believe Sir Lol and Lord Dread now have their new abilities. I can't remember if one didn't work, though.
- If both Sir Lol and Lord Dread are summoned, they will become so enraged that they will attack each other in the middle lane. The final battle will be joined! Since there is no way I can balance the two bosses for this encounter, it is likely Lord Dread will have a significant advantage. It'll be up to players to change that balance with their own skills. Lord Dread's Wrath ability and Judge ability will be disabled for this event, replaced by some other nuke.
- Every now and then, Sir Flailsaloot and Isador will attack each other on a lane. When one of them falls bellow 20%, they will both be ported back home and healed.
- Loladin defenses have been improved.
- Relief Shacks and Security Stations are now much more heavily guarded.
- All heroes that have not been picked will find their chance to prove themselves in battle later on... heheh...
- Rust Dragons aren't always narrow-minded in their service for Mal`Ash. There's rumors of Doom striking a deal with the dragon for some these powerful beasts... which should also have a functional flight ability soon.
- The Loladins have called upon the aid of the Holy Puppy and many other allies for their struggle against Evil.
- LoL now has a soundtrack for each side.
- I have rebalanced some heroes, reducing stun durations.
- There are now Legendary units, acquired by activating 3 divisions, in addition to Epic units. Legendary units are designed to help end the game. If one wave has a Legendary and the opposing wave does not, the opposing wave is in for some extreme penetration. Example - Black Dragon, who has spell immunity.
- I gave up caring about the size of the .exe. PREPARE YOURSELF
- Giant Robots have been replaced with Megatanks, and hopefully their spray attack should work.

Hero changes -
- The Akredian Desolator has joined the battle.

edit -

- Fixed animation bugs with the Priestess of the Stars
- Added the Black Dragon legendary unit to the Forces of Evil, and the Puppy of Holiness to the Loladin Army.
- Fixed issues with the creeps backdooring places because of an oversight with pathing and waygates.

edit -

- Tip says he'll help out in a few weeks when he's done with stuff. Until then, hopefully I can find the willpower to convert the graphics I need for a lot of shit.
- The level cap is now 25.
Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Mucky » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:40 am

wild axes plz


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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby tipereth » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:04 pm

If any of the heroes or spells int he map I sent you pique your interest, feel free to blatantly steal them. (Read: Update the void heroes so that I don't have to)

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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:22 pm

I have a bunch of ideas for heroes, most of them I can't do, though. I have some ideas for some ranged heroes in particular.

Do you guys want to see anything done to the terrain? I'm not sure I can do much without breaking it, but... I really wanted to widen the lanes even further, but I doubt WG would be up to the task (it takes a hell of a lot of work).
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Zilla- » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:38 pm

I like the terrain personally, although the backdooring is a bit inane unless you want it that way.

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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:23 pm

Future project idea: LoL campaign.

If I ever defeat bipolar and become able to concentrate on shit, I want to take what was learned in this project and put it to use, in a campaign with the same timeline and races as my 2042 mod.

In my previous campaign (Eternity) I ran into a lot of issues with AI. This campaign would use a combination of AI and scripted events. I would have to manually script everything like building structures, attacking, pathing, ect. because the AI is fucking stupid and has to have its hand held through everything to work even remotely as well as Starcraft's.

Anyways, the premise of the campaign goes a bit like this.

You are Sir Robert, a member of the Knight's Guild of Lome. The clock has just struck 12:00AM, dawning the year 2042 - the year of rebirth.

You're stationed at some backwater castle named some outrageously cliche name, like, lolbackdoorplase. And then demons attack. They run in, steal a section of the castle, and then begin massing towers. That's right. The demons will mass towers. I'll have to manually script every single tower position, and there'll be several hundred, to get this done.

This would be an RPG, like ET was. In fact, I could probably juke a lot of ET's maps and reuse them.

Anyways, the campaign wouldn't be overly difficult or involving, just a lolstorm. Lots of inanity. Because, well, it is 2042.

- I would be able to jack any graphic I want from WoW. Most of the work would be this. This is the #2 reason why I'd need to have defeated bipolar to even validate attempting this project. The sheer number of graphics I'd need to convert would be nothing short of insane.
- I would need to hand-trigger the AI. This would be #1 reason why I'd need to have defeated bipolar to attempt this. In all of my past wc3 experiences, the AI has 1.) whored CPU cycles like a bastard and crippled performance 2.) rewarded the insane cpu usage with the most braindead stupidity an AI can possibly achieve, by running away after attacking single towers, flailing around in the center of the map for half an hour, getting stuck on extremely simple terrain.
- I'd make a system where you can equip different weapons and armor that will not only visually change Sir Robert but also alter his attributes.
- Most battles would be between large groups of allies and enemies. Also second reason why I'd have to manually trigger AI... for the movement of large groups of units. Good thing there's 12 player slots.


I really wanted to finish this AOS but Xenon doesn't exist anymore, so handling the physics system is kind of beyond my ability to do. In fact, any complicated triggering at all is beyond my ability to do. There's no way I could do the following;

- Fix leaks.
- Make duel system.
- Make rep system.
- Make world boss respawn system.

Which were all key to doing if the AoS was to be finished.

Also I haven't even installed wc3 and don't intend to do so until maybe at the end of the year if I ever become mentally stable again. So really this is all just wishful thinking.

Talk amongst yourselves. Go on!

edit - Oh, and I really want to do sound events on models... but yeah.
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Milldawg » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:15 am

1. Is Sir Robert the same as Robert King Lich Kings Brother? I SURE HOPE SO.
2. I can fix leaks. Also there is a tutorial for it http://forums.hopzone.net/showthread.php?t=277

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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:48 pm

The leaks are in regards to the creep spawning system and were responsible for virtually all of the lag.
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:25 pm

Okay guys, I need some feedback from everyone who intends to regularly play LoL. This means Arcan, too, if he's still alive.

There is the possibility I can get Xenon to help fix up the map and stuff. Then Bill said he'll have a look at the creep spawning triggers and see if he can fix the leaks. The leaks were the big problem in my eyes. Anyways, some decisions need to be made.

Also, feel free to provide any additional thoughts or suggestions on these subjects.

First topic - the Terrain

I am not happy with the terrain. WG did an excellent job, but I made a critical design error when I gave the go-ahead on creating it.

First, the lanes. I had him enlarge them before, and that is a seriously painful job. However, they are still too small. Too small for epic creep battles, and too small for large hero battles. Dota and co. have the advantage of having backdoor lanes everywhere for hero battles. Now, I did add some waygates guarded by world bosses that will alleviate the issue of switching between the top and bottom lanes, but the problem still remains - a large portion of the terrain isn't actually being used, and I can't simply stick world bosses in the outter areas because then they'll aggro creeps and vis versa.

So, I have a few options.

1.) Completely rebuild the terrain. This will take a long, long time, but then I'll have full advantage of the entire map's worth of terrain instead of about 70%. I can base the layout on WG's but it won't look anything like it because I am unsure how he made some portions of it.

Advantages -

* I will have the full map at my disposal. So, lanes will be bigger, more "secret plases" for world bosses and shops, so on.
* Bigger lanes mean the creep fights won't get horribly congested and probably end faster, which means the unit limit won't be so edgy.
* Heroes will have more maneuverability.
* Load time should dramatically decrease, because the load time is based on the complexity of the geometry of the terrain, which wc3 parses every time it loads.
* Terrain deformation shouldn't utterly obliterate cpu anymore.

Disadvantages -

* My new terrain won't be perfectly symmetrical because I can't terrain perfectly symmetrical maps. But then again, neither is the current terrain (refer to middle).
* The terrain won't be nearly as pretty. I'm a great terrainer but WG's terrain has a very unique flair.
* It will take a long time to re-terrain, fix the creeps, ect. A very, very long time.
* I bet really weird and hilarious shit will happen.
* I don't even know if I can properly stab the current terrain.


2.) Hack apart the terrain and add additional ramps. This presents the problem that creeps already like to backdoor the lanes through the fucking waygates and it's very hard to prevent them from doing that. If I add more ramps to promote a more open map, creeps might end up in really weird places, and it might really fuck up the terrain. I have no idea what copy-pasting this shit will do to the walls but it could be impossible.

Advantages -

* More maneuverability.

Disadvantages -

* The already questionable creep pathfinding is going to be mangled.
* I don't actually know what is going to happen when I do this gameplay-wise.
* This may not even be possible with the current terrain.

3.) ???? , surely there is another option. Throw me some ideas, here.


Second topic - Heroes

I have some basic ideas for new ranged and int-based heroes with scalable spells but I'll need Xenon or Tip to do their stat-based skills. These aren't so much new as they are finishing some of the heroes that were never finished.

Additionally, if I make a new map, I am switching the heroes into a tavern-based system. Of course, seeing as I haven't mapped in god knows how long, I have no idea how to do this.

I did reduce the level limit to something like 25. It remains to be seen if this will fill the final gaps in balance.

As far as items are concerned, I am down for designing some high-end combo items without stun, attack speed, ect. if someone explains/creates an item merging system. That brings us to our next subject. There are already pieces for items in the data, they just need to be used for stuff.

Third topic - World Encounters

I need someone to make a proper respawn system for the world encounters, but first I need to decide how they'll work. My current theory is this.

You have several places with bosses. Then you have several places with respawning bosses. Every time a boss is killed, the killing team is rewarded with an amount of gold equal to the value of the boss. Then, in a few minutes, a stronger boss will respawn in the current place.

These bosses will be fairly strong. Everything from the champions to the rust dragons to new things. They will require the dedication of a team their level to defeat. (Have fun soloing the lower level ones though, they'll have protection against that...)

Fourth topic - Inane mode

Inane mode is no longer optional - it's always active.

Currently inane mode only spawns world bosses in lanes. I'd like to have events such as where Flailsaloot and Isador charge a lane until one of them reaches 25% but I don't know how to do that.

Now, if I switch heroes to tavern mode, I can't have a boss that randomly switches the position of everyone. Well, I can, but it won't be as inane. So I declare something even better.

First, the boss stuns everyone for about 10 seconds. 4 seconds through, it switches the position of every unit on the map randomly, including Lord Dread, ect. But Lord Dread ect. get returned to their original spots 20 seconds later.

Additional inane event ideas appreciated.

Fifth topic - Creepy creeps

Okay, once bill and whatever else does stuff I am going to fix the creep divisions to work to my aforementioned formula (Level 5 becomes level 10, ect...) if I haven't already.

I hope to do some additional Loladin divisions if I can concentrate enough on the subject. But if I need to rebuild the terrain it will have to wait.

I had some other stuff I wanted to post but of course I can't remember it. So... yeah. Give me feedback if you want to see this project continued!
Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:36 pm

Sixth topics - Buildings

When a building dies, it's inevitable a lane is going to get overrun. Now, I could make players able to rebuild buildings at a steep cost, but that could seriously backfire. I could have a timer that respawns buildings every so often, but that could backfire, too.

I do plan to add bill's system where epic spawns are linked to a central building.

So I need some ideas what to do with buildings.
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Xenon » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:27 pm

I actually tried to get back into triggering about 2 months ago. However, I didn't feel like doing too much because any new trigger functionality in the new WC3 patch might make some code obsolete. (Why the hell is there no easy way to check if a unit is invulnerable?!)

To be honest I already rewrote most of the physics and ability triggers, but I'm still not happy with them. I used "handle variable" systems which are more versatile than globals, but are slower and can cause nasty bugs if a reference it points to has already been destroyed and reused. "Structs" are groups of global arrays, but they require a WorldEdit addon to use them... and if you use them, you need the addon just to save the map. I don't think you want that, and I certainly don't.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to be a perfectionist...  :P

Also, are you sure the map loading time is related to the complexity, and not sheer size, of the pathing map? I think the terrain deformation lag is caused by the game re-calculating the height of every freaking terrain vertex on the map, for instance.

Speaking of which, if I actually manage to get back into this, I'd like to get some sort of 3D projectile thing going (think MaD Balls Arena), but  that would require that several things NEVER appear in the game because they would risk desyncs:

Terrain deformations. Since fog of war hides it from some players, different players would get different GetLocationZ values. Seeing as they currently cause lag, this is not much of a sacrifice. War Stomp etc. can be emulated with triggers.
Walkable doodads (ie. bridges, volcano). I would understand why animated or spawned walkable doodads desync GetlocationZ (animation timing is NOT synced) but it seems that static walkable doodads can even desync the value, tested on a connection between my two computers.

Anyways, the problem of my painfully-slow-to-load-LoL computer persists, so I can't promise too much at this point. (hopes for new trigger stuff in the patch to boost my interest) I might be able to de-leak and optimize the spawn system, however.

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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:56 pm

Yeah, I wanted to make a projectile system.

The reason the map complexity leads to huge load sizes is because of all the cliffs. Every little rise on the walls is actually a cliff, and that's why the map deformation lags - it is calculating all of the verticies, of which there is BILLIONS thanks to the walls.
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Xenon » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:34 pm

It's easy to have a 2D-with-height-tacked-on projectile system (which is actually what WC3 projectiles are), but when projectiles actually have a Z offset and Z velocity that matters, any height differences will cause a desync. I think this is why WC3 does not have true 3D projectiles. SC2 might, but I haven't seen terrain deformations in SC2.

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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Lavarinth » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:48 pm

Lavarinth is interested.
- - Lavarinth
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Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:26 am

Well so far only Ricky really commented on the terrain and was in favor of rebuilding it.

edit - And right now I'm in favor of turning the campaign into a cinematic-only production due to how fucking retarded the AI and general triggering is being.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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