Loladins of Legend

User avatar

Topic author
IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8956
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘ జ్ఞ‌ా
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:04 pm

Cannon garrisons -

A change I thought I had added before didn't work. They are supposed to have about 10-30 base attack damage and this goes up as time passes. They also provide a minor speed and attack speed bonus to things around them, and provide a gathering location for allied heroes returning to battle.

Sir Lol and Lord Dread -

If anything they are virtually complete, now. Their health may be increased slightly and their base damage decreased slightly to rebalance them with their new spells, but that's about it.

On to bill's comments....

the Central building

I like this idea a lot. I'll probably end up adding it. The offset though is that the level 10 and epic units spawned by it will take a bit more time to enter the battle. This could prove to be annoying, especially with my upcoming division changes, so I'll probably just have it handle Epic units.

For its invulnerability mechanics, I'll probably have its power connected to the battle fortresses and Loladin equivelents, or something fancy like that.

Stalemates

I like the idea of a final battle between Sir Lol and Lord Dread. Since most of their abilities won't work on each other it'll be a hectic battle deeply involving allied heroes who will have one last chance to win the game. I might have to disable Lord Dread's Wrath for that fight since it would otherwise wipe the enemy team in every single encounter. Additionally such a pew pew lazer canun might be added.


On to Arcan...

About streamlining the Divisions

As far as auto-attack is concerned, if you're only auto attacking the creeps, it's no wonder you guys keep losing.

And, to repeat once more, this is NOT like dota. Dota is boring. You get an item, you win the game. LoL will never be like that. I have also stated repeatedly there will eventually be combo items (nothing like bashers, buriza, ect. though), an arena would be nice to have, and so on. However, other than the upcoming division streamlining, it will never be as simple as dota is. There will be plenty of opportunities for all-hero battles with World bosses, control points, contribution junkies, and so on. I'll consider doing some minor additions/changes to the terrain and adding waygates for easier movement around the map, which should help promote these activities.

As far as I am concerned right now, the only other Evil-side division I intended to add was either the Delirium or Prophecy. I have/had plans to do the majority of the remaining Loladin divisions for a while, but I don't really have the motivation to do that much triggering/data/graphics/playtesting to make sure it even works.


To repeat myself some more...

Combo items are not going in until all existing heroes are "complete" and are working correctly.

Divisions will, for the most part (not all of them), will be changed to the following formula -

Level 1 -> level 5 -> level 10 base unit conversion (4 padawons become 4 warriors become 3 lolonels).
Level 5 -> level 7 -> subunit conversion (this only applies for some divisions. IE musketeers will become archers, stronger, and less in number.)
Level 7 -* (Most divisions will be given at least one level 7 unit. Some have some, some don't. Level 7 units are support units in virtually every case. An example is Inquisitors, Thunderers, so on.

This will dramatically reduce creep counts.

Additionally, Epic units will be getting a very significant buff. This will promote actually having some degree of tactics to fighting the creep battles (which no one but me seems to understand yet), and better pushing strength once you are victorious.

The Loladin base

I always thought the Desolator fortresses provided the teleport ability. I'll fix that some day. (As it turns out, it's the 4 guns at the Evil fountain. Shoot these and the FoE can't teleport there anymore.)

The Loladins need their level 2 defender unit (Bloodstone Guardians), and all level 1 need their offensive abilities.



Now, to clearify some misconceptions...

LoL is not simply an AoS. It was built on the foundations of the AoS, but was not intended to be like DotA. Personally, I get very bored of dota after a single game. It's always the same thing - deny creeps early on, get big sword, 1shot everyone. You die, the game's over. Simple.

LoL is more forgiving but also less forgiving. The bosses and strong creeps/defenses are there because it's how I like to play AoS' - I prefer a challenge, and not being able to end the game with my sword of a thousand truths within 15 minutes because the other team made a goof-up. Granted, making a goof-up against me in LoL still usually ends the game in my favour, but that's because I know exactly how the map works. It's built on the foundations of my tried-and-true ET balancing system. I've used this system since SC so please, if you have any questions or concerns about specific aspects, please ask.

When the introduction of combination items does eventually come, it will challenge the balance system in a way I cannot foresee. This is why I have been reluctant to add them. The balancing right now is so carefully plotted in my head, and the introduction of something as simple as 30% to attack speed will completely alter it. I must be careful what I add, or we'll end up in a far worse state than TGS or DotA were ever in.

Concerning Int heroes once more -

There are the hidden concerns of, due to the low ability cap and the high level cap, int heroes will get screwed over - probably twice as much when more items are added. To make it clear once and for all, there is plans to give most of the existing int heroes that do not having scaling abilities one that does scale. For example, the Spider Dude's glacial spike will scale in the future damage-wise.

Additionally, int heroes are capable of decent damage with their standard attack. Due to the way balance works out, they are NOT screwed by insane armor values on agi and strength heroes because I have made that about an eighth as effective as it is in Dota - 25 agility won't suddenly make you indestructible. Take this into account when setting up battles - armor reduction like Curse of Flesh and such are very, very powerful. Int heroes can take this advantage to do some SERIOUS damage.

Ranged heroes -

There is a lack of ranged heroes. I know that. I'm not worried about it right now, either. Doctor Doack will be ranged. Some other existing heroes to be added will be ranged.


Now...

About the map, there is potential. The framework is laid out. Thanks to ricky and others I have a very basic knowledge of triggering. This doesn't grant me the power to make much other than the very basic of spells (I did Deathwish, the holy lasers, ect.) but it does grant me some power over the divisions. However... Due to the nature the divisions are triggered in, it will take some time to reformat them to a state that reduces memory leaks.

When the map lags, it is NOT due to the graphics. I have tested wc3 with absolutely apeshit numbers of units before and so long as the standard AI is not running it did not lag. That is why this is an AoS, and not a B&D mercenaries like in SC which was what it was originally planned to be. The AI would utterly clusterfuck this thing to hell and back.

The lag is from the spawn triggers. I know how to fix it, and one of these days I will settle down and spend an hour or so going about doing just that. The map load time will never be reduced - it's due to the geometry of the map and the sheer complexity of the tiles. It's a price we pay for professional-grade quality. Only a few people suffer extraordinarily long load times, anyway. It's ten times as bad when mucky tries to save, though. If mucky does it one more time I am suspending him from any LoL play. I am getting seriously pissed off. It's okay if it's dota because it takes five seconds and usually is well deserved, but in LoL the save lasts far too fucking long and half the time it crashes me. I tried to take efforts to stop saving but until I figure out a more extreme method this will be my answer.


Arcan, you wanted to do graphics, I really wish you would try it sometime. It's a lot more motivating to do division work when I have something actually waiting to be added. I have a graphic for a second Loladin epic unit waiting to be added as we speak.

"Well, the map's still in a testing phase, so naturally it won't be balanced."

Everything is in a testing phase, but I am now keenly attuned to balancing. Once the heroes and divisions are working in a way I deem fit, I will bump the CP and arena up to the top of my list.

Good day,
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

User avatar

Xenon
Zerg Queen's Nest Slave Trainee
Zerg Queen's Nest Slave Trainee
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:29 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Xenon » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:27 pm

And, to repeat once more, this is NOT like dota. Dota is boring. You get an item, you win the game.


Seconded, thirded and fourth'd.

Anyways I tested my Chain WTF in LoL; it still hits towers because they aren't classified as structures, but it didn't crash despite units using it all over the place (I gave it to the Politician).

Edit: Also, the damage event won't work on units that have been raised by Resurrection and Ancestral Spirit (and Animate Dead, but that is less of an issue because they don't last as long). A workaround is to make a trigger that activates when a Champion of Light, Champion of Darkness etc spawns a summoned unit, and replace the summoned unit with one of the same type. This prevents the special effect from showing up on the resurrected units, however. They could be added by the trigger instead.
Last edited by Xenon on Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

Topic author
IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8956
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘ జ్ఞ‌ా
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:25 pm

Excellent.

I am in the process of tweaking the Loladin base to match that of the FoE base. The Loladin's 2nd level defender, the Priestess of the Stars, is in. Will start on abilities and such for these defenders in a bit. Next on my list is the central Epic building(s).e


edit - There's not really any place to put these central buildings. Even if I split it up to 1 per lane and make them flying, there's very little in the way to make them appropriately positioned...
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.


tipereth
Zerg Hydralisk Nail Stylist
Zerg Hydralisk Nail Stylist
Posts: 599
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:37 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby tipereth » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:48 pm

Make them hover over the racial leaders.


Aiursrage2k
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Terran Goliath Dome Polisher
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Aiursrage2k » Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:31 pm

I think there needs to be multiboard, and new items. Maybe reciepes.

Also a better kill system, ala dotar.


tipereth
Zerg Hydralisk Nail Stylist
Zerg Hydralisk Nail Stylist
Posts: 599
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:37 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby tipereth » Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:24 pm

Multiboard's are hard as fuck to make and to have look good.

User avatar

Zilla-
Protoss Dragoon Shooting Target
Protoss Dragoon Shooting Target
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:28 am
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Zilla- » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:55 am

tipereth wrote:Multiboard's are hard as fuck to make and to have look good.


Look at tips TS:D

Now then, my turn:
I agree that there need to be plenty of balance changes however I dont think that they should be the first things taken care of. The last time I played there were still plenty of bugs/lack of cooldowns/nonworkingness. These should be fixed IMO, my memory isn't good enough to remember anything other than the spamming of ancients to kill the rust dragon, but I also think that all of the heros that can be selected should ALL work as intended, perhaps they do I haven't seen them all in action and some that I have seen are broken, fix this first.

Second:
My suggestion on the 1laneshot=deth problem, have a respawn time on buildings, it sounds stupid but I have a map where it works well, if one of the lanes dies and the heroes can hold off the enemies creeps from raping their base instead of pushing/defending the other lanes they should get that structure back after 5d2 minutes or so. I think this would remove the feeling of "oshit we lost can we leave now?" personally I would like knowing that there is still a way to make a come back, I'm just throwing this out there.

3RED:
On the topic of neutral bosses I think that the "backdooring areas" should hold a group of 1337 mobs that provide some (non-gold) bonus to the team that takes them down perhaps make it last for a few mins untill the boss respawns and has the benefit up for grabs again so its not like "dude they killed roshan and have phat lewt, we loozed". Again just an idea

4oth
Only two large things remain in my grand scheme that need to be added. The Contribution System, which would reward hero kills with "Contribution" currency that can do things like summon extra epic units, the Avatar of Doom, temporary global buffs, so on. There is also those two control points intended for handling Epic spawns, which seems simple enough, but is just as daunting as the CP system to accomplish.

I like this, I like this a lot. LOLOGGO DOIT

5th
I would like to /applause to you for the amount of work you and your flailing clan have put into this and each time a new version is hosted I am excited to see whats new and different. I would love to see this project finished.

User avatar

Mucky
Protoss Khalai Missionary
Protoss Khalai Missionary
Posts: 1037
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:35 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Mucky » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:36 am

There needs to be a multiboard for the sole fact that I'd be able to minimize it.

Also on a side note I tried creating a multiboard for LoL at one point and my mind went from start to end: "oooooo" "wat da" "aaaaaaaaa" "fuk dis"


Mr.
Zerg Creep Colony Landscaper
Zerg Creep Colony Landscaper
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Virginia
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Mr. » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:41 am

The thing I don't get, and I admit that I've never looked at a multiboard ever, is that Tip has one in his map, and it has a minimize button.

A nice, pretty multiboard would be nice, but at the moment, I just want to be able to click on the right 1/4 of the screen.

Unless, of course, that's been taken care of in the 2-3 weeks it's been since I've played LoL, in which case, I'll shut up.
Paging Dr. @Lavarinth

User avatar

Topic author
IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8956
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘ జ్ఞ‌ా
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:15 pm

I'm gonna just try jacking Q's multiboard from TGS. I'm pretty sure porting it won't be as stupidly hard as making it since it's mostly variables and things that get autoformatted, right?

As for respawn buildings, I can link these to the central building. Destroy the central building (which loses invulnerability after 2 lanes go down), and no more respawns. Sounds easy enough. A 10 minute respawn timer would be fine, I think.

3RED:
On the topic of neutral bosses I think that the "backdooring areas" should hold a group of 1337 mobs that provide some (non-gold) bonus to the team that takes them down perhaps make it last for a few mins untill the boss respawns and has the benefit up for grabs again so its not like "dude they killed roshan and have phat lewt, we loozed". Again just an idea


The middle is currently filled with champions, royal champions, the dreaded Assassins, and the rust dragon. I will eventually code a respawn system that goes up in difficulty for each major kill.

It's not likely there will be an updated version ready for saturday, though.
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.


Mr.
Zerg Creep Colony Landscaper
Zerg Creep Colony Landscaper
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Virginia
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Mr. » Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:38 pm

btw, I don't be playing WC again this week, tbh

Also, doacks, ftw imo.
Paging Dr. @Lavarinth

User avatar

Xenon
Zerg Queen's Nest Slave Trainee
Zerg Queen's Nest Slave Trainee
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:29 pm
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Xenon » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:32 pm

I'm gonna just try jacking Q's multiboard from TGS.


Funny, I was going to suggest that. It isn't really mine anyway; I just rebuilt the triggers from the JASS.

I'm also messing around with a Loladin hero of my own design; it will probably take a while to finish assuming I can get all the spells to work. Here's a preview anyway:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar

Topic author
IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8956
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘ జ్ఞ‌ా
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:38 pm

Okay...

I got an idea what to do with fortresses and epic spawns.

There is now a central building that flies above Flailsaloot/Isador. It's about twice as strong as a battle fortress, minus special abilities. This building has the following attributes -

Every 10 minutes it will cast a spell that ressurects a single production building randomly. I don't have any idea how to do this as of right now.

When this building is alive, it will spawn the appropriate epic units just before the three fortress zones.

To make this structure vulnerable to attack, two battle fortresses must be destroyed from the fortress zones. Since these structures cannot be ressurected, I figured them the best choice to use as power nodes.


Items -

I will add a drop-on-death gem of truesight, and an orb used for attacking air units. The reason I choose to use an orb for attacking air units is quite simple - I want air units (and fortresses) to be unique. Melee should not be able to hit air normally.

Epic units -

Most epic units have recieved double health and armor, had their attack types altered and their cooldowns lowered slightly. Next week I plan to add...

The Amazonian division.
The Knight's Guild division.
Soljitsu division.

All are Loladin divisions. Loladins will additionally get the Puppy of Holiness, a new epic unit.

I also plan to sync the existing divisions with the aforementioned level 5 -> level 10 system for about 90% of them.
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.

User avatar

Milldawg
Zerg Defiler Nutritionist
Zerg Defiler Nutritionist
Posts: 733
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:00 pm
Location: US
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby Milldawg » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:12 am

Hm, I've never had problems with multiboards before.  You just...add what you need.  1-0 ez.  Dokes in various cokes.  What information would you want on the multiboard?

User avatar

Topic author
IskatuMesk
Xel'naga World Shaper
Xel'naga World Shaper
Posts: 8956
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 pm
Location: M͈̙̞͍͞ͅE̹H̨͇̰͈͕͇̫Ì̩̳CO̼̩̤͖͘ జ్ఞ‌ా
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Loladins of Legend

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:49 pm

Not sure. I haven't attempted it yet... but tipereth says it's really difficult.

I have a habit of making things twice as difficult. Excellent.
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.


Return to “WarCraft Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests