[New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new name)

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Eredalis
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Eredalis » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:50 am

Legion wrote:I'm just going to put this out there.

Most of your briefing text from your first mission was completely ripped from my Dark Swarm briefing.

Asshole.
This surprises you, Legion? That is Don Flamenco's style and you should know that by now. You've defended him hard and his... "exceptional techniques", you remember? ;D

Otherwise I have not played further because it became quite dull at the middle.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Meta » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:57 am

Heh, so years pass and omega20 is still stealing stuff from other people.

I often found myself returning to SC just to play his maps and check if he was plagiarizing or stealing anything from me. In most of the cases, it turned out that I was right. :)

If you want to make a campaign using material from other people, that's fine, but keep it for yourself and do not distribute it. Or, rather, ask permission. But a better alternative would be just to work hard and come up with original material.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby omega20 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:53 pm

Now, I can't believe this issue has arisen again. I thought it was solved long ago. So, let's see...

Legion wrote:I'm just going to put this out there.

Most of your briefing text from your first mission was completely ripped from my Dark Swarm briefing.

Asshole.


Are you sure? Let's look at them closely.

DARK SWARM BRIEFING
OVERMIND:
Awaken, my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind - the eternal will of the Swarm - and that you have been created to serve me.

Behold that as my fiercest example, you shall lead our Grand Search for the legacies left by my creators, the Xel'Naga, and bring us to perfection.

Now, my children, we have arrived at the source of the swirling energies that reached us light years away: the planet Argus IV.

I have sensed the presence of an unknown lifeform upon this world, a species well-equipped with technology, but lacking true essence. Should they become a threat, you must eradicate them.
Go now, and make our presence known!



ECHOES OF THE SWARM BRIEFING
OVERMIND:
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright! Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.

Behold that as my greatest creation, you shall help the Swarm to achieve its long-desired assimilation of the Protoss and to bring us to perfection.

At last, our long journey from Zerus is over. Now, we have finally arrived at the source of the psionic energies we sensed light years away. Know that these energies lie deep within the species currently ruling this sector of space. They call themselves the 'Terran'.

While weak and young, they may be the difference between victory or defeat. We shall assimilate them, then use their psionic power to bring the Protoss into our fold!

Thus, it will be your mission to establish a foothold on the nearby Terran colony known as Mar Sara. We must learn more about them in order to know their weaknesses. Go now, my child, and fullfill your task.


Under green coloration are the sentences which are almost identical in both briefings.
Under red coloration are the sentences which are similar in both briefings.

The text painted at green is the Overmind's salute to every new Cerebrate. (Note that it is the same for Blizzard's first Zerg campaign too). At most, you can accuse me of ripping it from Blizzard. Not from you.

The text painted at red is similar in both briefings. I didn't ripped it from you, though I knew beforehand it was similar to your own (accuse me of that if you want. Oh, my fault). I decided to leave it, though, because I liked the way it refered to the Cerebrate as the primary character of the storyline.

At most, 1 out of 5 paragraphs could be said to have been ripped from you. Pretty much "most" of your briefing, indeed.

Lavarinth wrote:omega20 appears to have vanished, there's more "trigger copying" than just your campaign, Legion, as has recently been informed to me.


Not vanished. Just too busy to be active more often. Tell me what kind of trigger copying do you refer to. I'll be glad to discuss that, but of course firstly I must know what should we discuss about.

Eredalis wrote:This surprises you, Legion? That is Don Flamenco's style and you should know that by now. You've defended him hard and his... "exceptional techniques", you remember? ;D

Otherwise I have not played further because it became quite dull at the middle.


Wow. I don't remember you refering to these kind of techniques earlier in your posts about this campaign, or did you? I recall having a thread apologising about all my "exceptional" style, and that was quite a time before making this campaign. I'm not surprised you didn't noticed it, though. If all of you had payed more attention to what "Don Flamenco" was saying instead spamming his threads (yes, not one, but TWO; the first for apologising, the second one because the first had turned off-topic; both ended locked) and turning them totally off-topic, you'd have learned about it.

About it being dull, I cannot deny it. This is my first ever completed campaign. People's opinions may differ from one another. I know you for heavily criticizing all of my works. Perhaps you should make a campaign yourself, so Don Flamenco can have the opportunity to criticise it too ;) Who knows, maybe if you do it and he founds something in your campaign that is similar to other campaign, he can come and call it "plagiarism" too! Hell, why not?

Meta wrote:Heh, so years pass and omega20 is still stealing stuff from other people.

I often found myself returning to SC just to play his maps and check if he was plagiarizing or stealing anything from me. In most of the cases, it turned out that I was right. :)

If you want to make a campaign using material from other people, that's fine, but keep it for yourself and do not distribute it. Or, rather, ask permission. But a better alternative would be just to work hard and come up with original material.


I took care to avoid plagiarizing or stealing anything from anyone when making this campaign (I'm not talking about previous works, I already recognized it when it had to be recognized, and everything that had to be said was said. That's it). If I did "plagiarize" you in any of the maps of this campaign, please, report it to me. As I said to Lav, I'm glad to discuss whatever issues there may be.

But please, don't bother me calling me a thief without firstly saying what did I stole. Thank you.

Regards.

omega20 A.K.A Don Flamenco

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Meta » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:53 pm

Sorry about it, I assumed it was a blatant case of plagiarism/theft. My bad.

What's the deal with this "trigger theft" thing? Not accusing anyone of anything, just genuinely curious. Unlike other authors I'd feel flattered if my triggers were copied and used for anything, as long as the end result isn't plagiarism of my maps (mere inspiration is fine, as long as the gameplay is distinct enough). Apparently others don't feel the same though, and go to the extent of checking other people's maps for these. Wow.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Pr0nogo » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:26 pm

Apparently others don't feel the same though, and go to the extent of checking other people's maps for these. Wow.


I often found myself returning to SC just to play his maps and check if he was plagiarizing or stealing anything from me. In most of the cases, it turned out that I was right.


lol

To answer your question, it really depends on who you are as a mapper. IskatuMesk publicly condemns anyone who uses anything of his (unless its a music file or something), and demands that it be removed from the project the other person is working on, even if credit is given. Why the fuck should he care? I ask the same question of everyone else who whines because someone took inspiration from a trigger or a gameplay mechanic or something else from a map and used it in their own creation. If it's good, use it, and if it's something as simple as a trigger, it shouldn't be an issue. If it's something more extensive or more unique, like a portrait or an audio file, then yeah, credit should be given. For a trigger, though... That's kinda pushing it. Who knows, maybe he came up with the stuff himself.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Laconius » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:35 pm

omega20 wrote:Perhaps you should make a campaign yourself, so Don Flamenco can have the opportunity to criticise it too ;)


Actually, he has. Outworld Episodes and Planetary Saga are among those I know, and even though they weren't in English, I'd still say that they're definitely campaigns on par with Blizzard's quality, both in gameplay and voice acting. So I think Eredalis has every right to be an anal campaign judge around these parts. :P

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby omega20 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:14 am

Laconius wrote:
omega20 wrote:Perhaps you should make a campaign yourself, so Don Flamenco can have the opportunity to criticise it too ;)


Actually, he has. Outworld Episodes and Planetary Saga are among those I know, and even though they weren't in English, I'd still say that they're definitely campaigns on par with Blizzard's quality, both in gameplay and voice acting. So I think Eredalis has every right to be an anal campaign judge around these parts. :P


My bad then, I didn't know it. Even so, that's not enough of a reason to criticise my current methods just because I made shameful mistakes in the past. Without making any references about what did I "plagiarise" this time, I should note. This really annoys me, because for this campaign I took special care to avoid copying anyone else's work. You cannot just call me a thief just because a briefing is slightly similar (in one sentence) to that of another campaign. That's just insulting.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Lavarinth » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:50 pm

Curiously, since you asked, I've been noted that your credits are very similar to that of Vile Egression, thoughts/input?
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby omega20 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:22 pm

Lavarinth wrote:Curiously, since you asked, I've been noted that your credits are very similar to that of Vile Egression, thoughts/input?


So, I'm now a thief because I was inspired on VE clean and flexible credit style in order to make the credits for my own campaign? Hey, who knows, maybe tomorrow we will be all thiefs just because we type the same words than other guys. :P

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Church » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:30 pm

Yeah, I think i'm gonna be on omega's side on this one. Sure, it was similar to what Laconius did, but it's not like he used the exact same words. I haven't seen any direct plot stealing, character, direct gameplay or any other plagiarism as of yet. Sure, I'll support somebody with really good evidence, but so far it seems more like he just got inspiration from such things.

However, it is most certainly true that omega did such things in the past, but there is a chance he's improved since then. Just my opinion :/
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Legion » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:49 pm

@ briefing issue: Omega, your briefing was mostly bad. The only thing that was good about it was the shit you stole from me. :P The Blizz part I used in the beginning was for fun, 'cause it was my original voice test for the Overmind. Yours didn't have voiceovers, so I'm guessing you just like to use other people's stuff.

You're a plagiarist and you have no inspiration. You even said it yourself, "I took extra care to avoid copying from someone." You're just one of those guys, I guess.

Next time if you like somebody's stuff, just leave 'em a PM or something. Copying stuff is lame. People are gonna notice.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby omega20 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:40 pm

Legion wrote:@ briefing issue: Omega, your briefing was mostly bad. The only thing that was good about it was the shit you stole from me. :P The Blizz part I used in the beginning was for fun, 'cause it was my original voice test for the Overmind. Yours didn't have voiceovers, so I'm guessing you just like to use other people's stuff.

You're a plagiarist and you have no inspiration.


Now, this is it. Not only do I have to stand that all of you troll my threads so that they end up locked, but also to tolerate you calling me a plagiarist and a thief without no evidence at all?

Legion wrote:You even said it yourself, "I took extra care to avoid copying from someone." You're just one of those guys, I guess.


So, what did I say? I just meant that, knowing what happened in the past, I did this campaign in such a way so that few similarities could be found between this and other campaigns and thus, anyone would be able to say I stole anything, because I had not stolen anything from anyone, this time at least.

But hey, I already apologised and said all what had to be said in the threads that, sadly, you ended up trolling. You seemingly didn't read me then. You've no right to come here now to insult me without showing any evidence at all.

Oh, and by the way, you used a sentence of mine in your post. I think you should have asked me for permission before using it, don't you agree? ;)

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Pr0nogo » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:31 pm

Omega, what he's trying to say is that you copied what other people did and just changed stuff around to make it look like you didn't, a la "taking extra care". I don't necessarily believe that, but that's what I'm pretty sure Legion is saying.

Regardless, it's a really trivial issue. Like Legion said, all one would have to do is drop someone a line (figuratively) and voila. I don't understand why everyone's so out of their tits about this situation.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby omega20 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:57 am

Pr0nogo wrote:Omega, what he's trying to say is that you copied what other people did and just changed stuff around to make it look like you didn't, a la "taking extra care". I don't necessarily believe that, but that's what I'm pretty sure Legion is saying.

Regardless, it's a really trivial issue. Like Legion said, all one would have to do is drop someone a line (figuratively) and voila. I don't understand why everyone's so out of their tits about this situation.


The matter here is that I don't really care what he says, because he's not showing any evidence of my supposed plagiarising. So, one sentence of one briefing is similar to that of one from his own campaign. THAT is enough of a reason for him to come here and insult me? :/ One thing is to accuse someone of plagiarising when that person has stole triggers, gameplay or entire dialogues from someone else. But we're not talking about those here, but about one f****** sentence that I wrote separately from his campaign. I do recognize I later saw his own campaign and noticed the similitary between the two sentences, but I didn't think like to change it, just because I didn't believe it would come to this. I apologise for having a higher opinion from you, Legion.

Oh, and by the way...

Legion wrote:@ briefing issue: Omega, your briefing was mostly bad. The only thing that was good about it was the shit you stole from me. :P


Legion wrote:Most of your briefing text from your first mission was completely ripped from my Dark Swarm briefing.


First you say I stole most of your briefing. Now you say that most of the briefing is indeed mine. Care to decide which of these opinions are you going to defend? And please, next time put on more evidence, because it is really annoying to come here and insult me without no reason.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Meta » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:10 pm

Legion wrote:@ briefing issue: Omega, your briefing was mostly bad. The only thing that was good about it was the shit you stole from me. :P


"Bad" and "good" are subjective judgments and hardly seem relevant here.

Next time if you like somebody's stuff, just leave 'em a PM or something. Copying stuff is lame. People are gonna notice.


I agree with that on an overall basis, even though I'm not sure that's the case at hand.

Stealing, or getting inspired, by a credits screen seems like overreacting, specially because I don't remember anything truly special about VE's credits. It had an awesome final music (Lacuna Coil I think) but that was about it. Im my personal mapmaking ethos, stealing or plagiarizing gameplay, major story elements, dialogues, characters or music (even if not original) is far worse, to me at least. Note that I never caught omega20 stealing any story elements whatsoever, just sfx and music.

Of course, this personal ethos doesn't involve stuff that's really authorized, easter eggs or homages.


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