[New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new name)

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IskatuMesk
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:06 am

Pr0nogo wrote: IskatuMesk publicly condemns anyone who uses anything of his (unless its a music file or something), and demands that it be removed from the project the other person is working on, even if credit is given. Why the fuck should he care?


Yeah... when you put weeks of work into getting stuff looking just right and some random gook runs up and steals that, uses it in his kitbash conglomoration and doesn't even mention my name in the credits? Fuck that. I have yet to encounter an instance where something was stolen and credit was actually given.

Maybe some people don't find much value in their work because their work is cheap and terrible.

Attitudes like yours are why I stopped releasing content publicly. I don't make projects for you to pillage their remains. I released a shitton of content for open source, including a ton of graphics and all of AO's iscript, and yet still you have the nerve to say this shit.
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Pr0nogo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:33 am

It doesn't take much "nerve" to say what I think, Mesky.

I was specifically referring to the Korean dude who posted a mod a few months back. You were all "hurr get my shit out of your mod durr" and he was like "what is English", and a whole shitfest spewed out of that.

If I was in your place, I really wouldn't be able to care any less if somebody took a custom graphic, code, or whatever. If I get credit, I don't see what the big deal is. I don't view that as having low value of my own work, I view that as one mapper/modder helping another. Would I appreciate it if they asked first? Yes, I would. Would I get pissed off if credit wasn't given? Hell yeah I would, but I wouldn't be all "GET IT OUT OF THERE". I'd merely demand that credit be given or the content be pulled out. I think, when confronted with the two options, the "thief" in question will most certainly give credit. Most of the "thievery" we're all so concerned about is more out of acts of forgetfulness and laziness than a malevolent intent to "pillage" a project of its useful resources.

tl;dr I have yet to meet a mapper/modder/whateverer who knowingly intends to take something without permission/without giving credit. It's almost always a mistake. If you seriously think people are out to get YOUR CONTENT, then a.) you're paranoid and b.) you've got a superiority complex (but we all knew that about Mesk anyways, the a.) and b.) were just to clarify things for other people too worried about "thievery").

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:47 am

Yeah, well, you're not in my place. You didn't work your balls off to make those AE effects that putz ripped out of AO. Thus you don't know. You're a feeder. Of course you're going to think that way.

The guy knew English enough to read the fucking readme.

I guess since we can just take everything I can just go ahead and rip out all of OR's and GC's graphics, even though those authors also specifically said not to, huh? No. Because there's something called respect that modders are supposed to have for each other's work. You don't show respect, you aren't respected. People who steal shit are disrepecting the work the other authors have put into their mod.

That korean guy continued to advertise his mod with stolen garbage in it elsewhere after I called him out. He knows what he's doing is wrong. He doesn't care. It isn't about forgetfulness. You don't forget to read the document that comes with a mod. You choose not to.

/e Also, desiring to protect one's creative content is not called a "superiority complex". Just so you know bro.
Last edited by IskatuMesk on Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Pr0nogo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:03 am

Forgetfulness and laziness, good doctor.

If someone specifically states that the content is in no way, shape, or form to be reproduced/re-used elsewhere, then that's a different story.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:08 am

Read AO's readme. I specifically stated that the graphics cannot be used, but I provided all of the source iscript to be used for learning or whatever. I released almost all of my assets from mods prior to AO. I wanted to keep AO's work inside AO, but I have allowed some specific people who asked nicely to use very specific things. Some people don't ask nicely. Some people just don't give a fuck about the author's wishes. At first I'll ask nicely. But if people wish to abuse the good will of the authors... what can one do?

In most communities this behavior is on the spot ban worthy. I like to think that I am reasonable, but there are things that I have spent tremendous amounts of effort on perfecting for the sole purpose of one project. If people just pillage that project for all it's worth, than the uniqueness of the project and all of the work that was placed into it was lost. AO was not abandoned like the other projects who, after a time, I felt were worth making open source as they had died and others would find use in them. If everyone is to just rip out the AE effects and the remastered rips and just use them everywhere else, the energy of AO and the character of AO is lost.

Despite this I would rather encourage people to create their own original work than rely on the backbone of other people's efforts that were not intended for them to begin with. Some people may consider stuff like conversions trivial and without merit of an author's abilities, but you give it a try and see how easy it is. I value the energy and effort placed into something, and the goal it was intended to fulfill, more than anything else.

It so happens the things people have a habit of stealing are the things I've put the most work into. It wasn't just my work that was stolen, either, but another author's as well. I have to protect them as I have to protect myself. If I say nothing, I lose everything. If I say something, I look like an asshole.
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Pr0nogo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:16 pm

If it's stated in the readme, then we shouldn't even be arguing over that, because you had every right to do what you did. I've never played AO, nor do I intend on playing it (moreso because 1.15.2 is fucking stupid than because I don't want to play your mod), so I didn't know the readme stated what it did.

Getting back to the previous discussion, though, do you really think that similarity between two dialogues or some inspiration/maybe copying of a credits section is worth all this fuss? (not you specifically, just everyone who's commented in general)

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:34 pm

I only glazed over this topic until I saw people taking shots at me. AO is for 1.10.

As for what's going on... I think it's very difficult to claim "ownership" over a style of presenting text. Text itself, yes, but I haven't paid close enough attention to what exactly people are arguing about. Style of credits...? This was mentioned and I find that it is extremely difficult, if not exceptionally silly, to really make a tangible case of plagiarism about that.

Let's take an example at face value and say that Omega did in fact "steal" the colorizing of credits text or whatever it is that Lavarinth is talking about. That's not exactly something that takes a lot of work to make. It's not really something that can really be stolen, either, like plot, character, graphics, voice acting, terrain ect. That's like saying someone stole the idea of coloring tier-based unit name text like I did in AO and I should launch a crusade about it. I wouldn't give two shits if someone did that. It was an idea, and the idea was stolen I "guess", but it wasn't something that costed me any effort to act upon. I wouldn't do it myself, but I wouldn't have any real grounds to claim that kind of thing to be mine, either.

The campaign briefing? The first paragraph is basically a copy of bluzzard's original and the rest given in the example doesn't seem really noteworthy... well, having been a part of teams who had many writers squabbling over minor details while missing the big picture, I personally just glazed over this particular subject. I don't like acting as a intermediary between writers. It turns into a big disaster because I am heavy-handed and have a tendency to not care about other people's writing. Having not played or even heard of Omega's previous works or supposed theft I don't have an existing grounds to address half this thread with.
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Pr0nogo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:37 pm

Basically, omega had a single line in his campaign that was semi-similar to one of Legion's lines of briefing text and he got pissy about it for some reason. Like you said, though, it's rather ridiculous.

I don't even know if the credits thing is right, I just saw it mentioned and continued to laugh at the increasing ridiculousness of this thread.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:39 pm

Our community is built upon drama, didn't you know?
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Pr0nogo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:03 pm

Nope. Then again, I didn't know that StarEdit.net was built upon assholism and dictatorial standards...

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Laconius » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:22 pm

Pr0nogo wrote:Getting back to the previous discussion, though, do you really think that similarity between two dialogues or some inspiration/maybe copying of a credits section is worth all this fuss? (not you specifically, just everyone who's commented in general)


Hmm, I took a look at the credit's section for this campaign just to confirm the rumours. Apparently, some parts are just lazilly copy/pasted from VE and planted into this one. Like tbh, I don't give a damn about the actual "theft" part and don't think it's worth the fuss its generated. However, I just feel that if you're going to do something like this, the least you could do is shoot a PM to the author and be like "hey I'm taking ur shits lolol" and author would be like "lolk." Behavior like that builds friendships and a mutual respect between two authors. If this doesn't occur however, it doesn't seem like much of a "tribute/source of inspiration" as it does a sign of laziness and disrespect.

Example: I would originally liked to have fashioned the VE credits section similar to the style found in RCX's Final Destiny. However, I personally asked RCX about this and he declined my request. So I respected his wishes and took the time to develop my own.

My point: omega, I'm glad you found VE's credits section worthwhile to emulate, but the least you could have done to prove that you turned over a new leaf from your previous habits would have just been to give me a holler. I would have appreciated such, and we could have possibly shared a beer and collaborated on new ideas.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby omega20 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:13 am

Laconius wrote:
Pr0nogo wrote:Getting back to the previous discussion, though, do you really think that similarity between two dialogues or some inspiration/maybe copying of a credits section is worth all this fuss? (not you specifically, just everyone who's commented in general)


Hmm, I took a look at the credit's section for this campaign just to confirm the rumours. Apparently, some parts are just lazilly copy/pasted from VE and planted into this one. Like tbh, I don't give a damn about the actual "theft" part and don't think it's worth the fuss its generated. However, I just feel that if you're going to do something like this, the least you could do is shoot a PM to the author and be like "hey I'm taking ur shits lolol" and author would be like "lolk." Behavior like that builds friendships and a mutual respect between two authors. If this doesn't occur however, it doesn't seem like much of a "tribute/source of inspiration" as it does a sign of laziness and disrespect.

Example: I would originally liked to have fashioned the VE credits section similar to the style found in RCX's Final Destiny. However, I personally asked RCX about this and he declined my request. So I respected his wishes and took the time to develop my own.

My point: omega, I'm glad you found VE's credits section worthwhile to emulate, but the least you could have done to prove that you turned over a new leaf from your previous habits would have just been to give me a holler. I would have appreciated such, and we could have possibly shared a beer and collaborated on new ideas.


Well, I didn't look at it from this point of view. From my own, it was just a credits section. Just a bunch of letters and words and some colors put together in order to credit people about how they helped in the development of someone's work. I thought on noticing you on the matter, of course, but I regarded it as a so trivial one than I thought I would bother you with it more than anything else. However, though, since Laconius had been very helpful with me in the past, and because the effect his campaign had had on me to make my own campaign, he was properly credited on the credits.

My most sincere apologies, though, if you think I should have acted otherwise (you are in your right to think so, of course, as long as it is said in an educated way). My intention was not to disrespect any of you. To the contrary, I just expected you to consider this campaign as some kind of homage to your work, since it was your own projects who made me want to make my own in the first place.

I just didn't expected it would come to this. For me to be called a thief just because two paragraphs are similar in the briefings of two different campaigns. I just cannot stop to laugh upon seeing how absurd it looks.

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby SkyStormer17 » Sat May 28, 2011 11:38 am

Hey! Is this one still in the works? :)

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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby Church » Sat May 28, 2011 6:11 pm

To the best of my knowledge, EotS is complete, however Omega is no longer updating this. If I remember correctly, the download on the first post is no longer working, but you can download a temp file I uploaded here: http://www.gamefront.com/files/17883244/EOTS-TEMP.rar/
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Re: [New Campaign] StarCraft I: Echoes of the Swarm (new nam

Postby SkyStormer17 » Sat May 28, 2011 6:23 pm

Jim_Raynor wrote:To the best of my knowledge, EotS is complete, however Omega is no longer updating this. If I remember correctly, the download on the first post is no longer working, but you can download a temp file I uploaded here: http://www.gamefront.com/files/17883244/EOTS-TEMP.rar/


Thank you so much, I was able to download it. :D How's that? I've just read this crazy conversation... what happened?


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