Iron Wars development thread (download not available)

[Ardis]

Partially because I didn't get an SC2 beta key... I also want to finish this mod or at least have something to show for all of my work soon, but I keep running across problems where certain ideas don't work as well as I thought and some don't work at all.

And I did the trigger for every player like that because I didn't know how the All Players and Current Player stuff worked... Last time I tried working with triggers got pretty bad, so I am kind of worried about how this will turn out. I'll try that, though. And actually I'm using PyTrg for my triggers, seems to work for me, probably going to start switching the rest of my mod over to the PyMS tools over time since I'm still getting used to the differences and certain files don't want to open up right at the moment.

Also, another of those problems I'm having. I made the .trg file I needed and threw it into the triggers\ directory in the mod and it doesn't seem to acknowledge its existence and just runs by default melee triggers instead of the modified melee.trg file. Or am I supposed to edit the .got file instead of the .trg file?

[bajadulce]

Pytrg is nice because it has the ability to save as a stripped trigger (save got compatible trigger)  (ctrl +g) which is what you should be using to save as "melee.trg" and archive into your mod as "triggers".  Try that.

I was using pytrg for awhile myself, but found ProTRG to be much better suited for what I wanted to do particularly for importing into SCMDraft.  ProTRG doesn't have the .got conversion capability, but poiuy mentioned possibly implementing that in a future version.  I don't think he has any plans to update Pytrg however from what it sounds like.  So you might want to check out ProTRG as well.  I've been using a nifty tool to strip a saved map's triggers once imported into a basic SCMDraft map.  I believe I linked to the program in this thread iirc.  Just another option.  I think ProTRG has a much cleaner format personally even if you don't take advantage of the macro generation capabilities..

As for changing over to other PyMS tools, sounds like a good plan.  I personally still use SFGRPConverter, DatEdit, Tblpad, and ICEcc for most of my editing. I will say that PyICE is wonderful that it can look up scripts by Iscript ID as well as open them without having to extract them!  PyDat's sound preview is extremely helpful as is the fact that strings have stat_txt.tbl ID's.  So glad to hear ppl are using his tools.  He certainly put a lot of effort into them.

Partially because I didn't get an SC2 beta key...

You aren't missing much.  SC2 is just another 3D game. 

As for your trigs: I just happen to have an older version of my trigs which use pytrg that might be of help.  These don't payout like your mod will, but they might help give you an idea as to how the AllPlayers/Current Player might work:

Code: Select all

Trigger(All Players):
	Conditions:
		Command(Current Player, At Least, 1, Terran Refinery)
		CountdownTimer(Exactly, 68)
	Actions:
		SetDeaths(Current Player, Mineral Chunk<0>Type 1, Add, 1)
		Wait(1000)
		PreserveTrigger()
		Comment(String 41)
Trigger(All Players):
	Conditions:
		Command(Current Player, At Least, 2, Terran Refinery)
		CountdownTimer(Exactly, 68)
	Actions:
		SetDeaths(Current Player, Mineral Chunk<0>Type 1, Add, 1)
		Wait(1000)
		PreserveTrigger()
		Comment(String 33)

Trigger(All Players):
	Conditions:
		Command(Current Player, At Least, 3, Terran Refinery)
		CountdownTimer(Exactly, 68)
	Actions:
		SetDeaths(Current Player, Mineral Chunk<0>Type 1, Add, 1)
		Wait(1000)
		PreserveTrigger()
		Comment(String 39)

Trigger(All Players):
	Conditions:
		Command(Current Player, At Least, 4, Terran Refinery)
		CountdownTimer(Exactly, 68)
	Actions:
		SetDeaths(Current Player, Mineral Chunk<0>Type 1, Add, 1)
		Wait(1000)
		PreserveTrigger()
		Comment(String 40)

I keep running across problems where certain ideas don't work as well as I thought and some don't work at all.

Modding can be difficult at times.  I think a lot of things are possible in modding, but some require a ton of workarounds to pull off.  In the end, I think the end result isn't always worth all the trouble and so the idea gets cast aside.  There isn't much help out there either and so you're pretty much on your own to experiment with creative ideas to make something work.  That's just how it is.

[Ardis]

Okay, I've got the All Player/Current player triggers set up and it works fine. I tried your idea of using the "Save as .got compatible" and it didn't seem to make a difference, the game still doesn't read it and instead just uses the normal melee triggers.

Should I try using PyGot and merging the triggers with the .got file and using that with both archived files archived in the mod? Or does the .got file just hold the information you see in PyGot like starting resources, units, team limits, victory and defeat conditions?

[bajadulce]

Okay, I've got the All Player/Current player triggers set up and it works fine. I tried your idea of using the "Save as .got compatible" and it didn't seem to make a difference, the game still doesn't read it and instead just uses the normal melee triggers.

What do you mean when you say "it works fine" and then later say it just uses the normal melee triggers?  Your trigs are working in a test UMS but not as the replaced melee.trg?  Should work.  Upload or PM me your trigs.. and is there nobody else in this entire place that answers any of these modding questions?  Kinda fucked up.

[Ardis]

Yeah, I meant it worked in the UMS map, but not an actual melee game. Here's the melee.trg file.

[bajadulce]

Doesn't seem like the file you've uploaded has been converted?  Or maybe you uploaded in this format on purpose? 

Anywho, you need to save this as .got compatible trg.  After doing so, I tested in game and works fine.  The resources come pretty quick.

Maybe you're not hitting the right buttons in PyTrg?  Here's a pic showing what you need to do.  Maybe you've done this tho? 
[imgwh 552x424]http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8563/trigs.jpg[/imgwh]

EDIT:
Also make sure you're using the file you actually saved.  This is a common problem as well.. Save the file as some distinct name like "What_the_fuck_is_going_on.trg".  It's possible you are saving the file to a different directory and/or archiving a different one.  Give it a unique temp name.  Other than that, dunno.

[Ardis]

Okay, got it working in a standard melee map, I apparently archived the one I thought was .got compatible when it turned out it wasn't. Apparently PyTRG doesn't like you saving a .got compatible .trg file over a normal .trg file or something. If not that, I think saved it to a different directory and forgot which .trg was which... I'd like to think both were equally likely of being the actual problem... And yeah, I might have to slow the resource gain down a bit otherwise I would have to inflate the unit prices to ridiculous levels.

Also, I seem to have two different images in my head for what the worker is supposed to look like. One idea is a slow, huge construction ship with extending arms and mining lasers on the shoulders, which could be a bit of a problem because of the size of these units in the worker flow while mining. The other is supposed to be smaller, cargo ship with mining lasers near the middle. What I'm thinking of doing is making both as separate units and making one a dedicated miner and making it much cheaper and faster than the second worker which is a miner and builder and setting Firegraft to make you start with two builders and two miners, maybe even give the builder warp.

[bajadulce]

ahh.. glad you managed to work out your .trg issues. 

Different miners/workers sound like a good idea.  The fleetmod AdAstras had 2 different flying workers as well, but weren't too different from one another iirc.  Somehow 3 different workers managed to find their way into my own mod.  The 3rd one is actually a merging of 2 of the lesser ones.  The idea that 2 of your lesser worker/builders might merge into a new super worker/miner might be something to consider too.  Maybe even a special animation for the merging?    One thing is for certain, if your workers are flyers, you won't have to worry about them getting stuck!  Which is really nice!

K, you got peeps to help test this mod as it gets closer to completion?  Myself, I could use some help testing some things as well. 

[Ardis]

If anything, I'll make the mining only one a flying unit and the larger, building and mining one a ground unit because there is a significant size difference. For now, everything is set to operate as a flying unit (through graphics options in Units.dat) while smaller units are flagged as flying units for weapon targeting purposes.

If I could, I would have made a late-game mining barge that would take longer to mine, but pull in more resources per trip, kind of like the Goblin Shredders in WC3. But since the resources per trip values are determined universally for all units in the exe edits on Firegraft, that idea will have to be saved for a later project.

One unit that is giving me problems right now is I've split the defensive structures into two different buildings for different roles, one is a smaller defense turret and the problematic one is supposed to be a missile array, but I had to code it from scratch. The odd part is the script seems right, but the building seems to have a mind of its own. It has the attack and stop buttons from the Attacking Buildings command set, but doesn't seem to follow orders. When ordered to attack a friendly unit, it does nothing. When ordered to attack a specific enemy unit when there are multiple enemies, it picks its own target and attacks that unit and doesn't change targets unless it wants to.

I was actually just going to round up people from here and SEN to test it as soon as I have something that is close enough to completion that I can let others see it.

[bajadulce]

check the "Attack Unit:" AI action for this troublesome unit.  It sounds suspect. 

@ SEN for help?  Was that a joke?

[Ardis]

Well, I guess now that I think about it... Maybe not. I just figured since they seemed to have more members that it would be good to see if there were any people there interested in testing.

And the entire AI tab has been copied over from the Photon Cannon so I'm starting to think there is some small thing going on with certain buildings that makes them capable of following attack orders. I think I had a similar problem in the past with the older version of this mod before I had to start over.

What I might do is merge the smaller turret role with the vulture spider mine instead, turning it into a small deployable turret and turn the missile turret into the larger weapons array it was supposed to be. And if this problem is what I think it is, then I can just give the defensive array addon no command buttons and let it attack completely automatically.

Mostly what needs to be done now is just sprites, animation scripting and stat balancing, AI will have to wait since I'm not sure what is staying in present form, some units might be swapped around to take advantage of certain hard-coded upgrades and other things.

[Ardis]

And with that last change (making two separate workers), I've rendered Terran AI unusable until I write custom AI scripts for it because the builder/miner unit (former SCV) takes 2 supplies while the dedicated miner (former Civilian) takes one and it locked trying to build the larger builder/miner ones when it was unit capped from lack of supply depots and just sat there mining minerals the whole time.

Also, trying to make asteroids for the third resource node and going to try and figure out how to make a planet. Any idea on how to randomize the graphics for these? I don't want every last planet on the map looking the exact same. Right now I'm thinking of including multiple planet sprites in the .grp file and making a randcondjump code in the scripts to make it choose a random sprite.

[Ardis]

Well... This isn't good at all.

I swapped out my video card for a new one I ordered last week and last night I found out that I can't use it with Starcraft. I'm getting some weird video errors on the left side... It's like a huge black block covering the upper left corner and lines falling from it that block everything else. The odd part about it is that I can't catch it in any screenshots, so it might be something going on between the video card and monitor when it's running in that color mode and resolution. I'm going to try and find my DVI adapter and hook my monitor up to that instead of the VGA to see if that helps any. If it doesn't, I might have to get a second computer set up just for Starcraft and any other video games my new video card doesn't like.

[Ardis]

Fixed the video issue, have to turn the hardware acceleration down on my new video card to run Starcraft (heh, too advanced for SC I guess)

Okay, I think I've been stalling long enough. Here's what I have so far, feel free to check it out. Attached is what I have done right now. It's not very pretty right now, certain units are a little too powerful, some are too weak and two just don't do a damned thing because one seems to have no idea how to operate (scripting seems fine, but it just refuses to obey any orders and finds its own targets) and the other... I don't know what I want to do with that one yet (if anything, may even give it to the Syndicate or Federation instead.)

If anyone wants to do a few games to test it out as it is, I've included a map that was made for the mod. If you want to make your own maps for it all you have to do is make a space tileset map and leave the ground as nothing but the default platform for space and it should come out fine. Resource nodes will have to be spaced out because they are now much bigger than the default 32x64 they were initially.

If anyone has a Battle.net emulator server to run this on, let me know, I want to get a few multiplayer games in on Thursday or Friday at 7:00 or 8:00PM EST. Or maybe over the weekend. Need to hear what people have to say about it after playing in multiplayer games. Find out what is hideously overpowered and what is underpowered/useless since I want every unit to have a purpose/role.

The voices are just sound clips borrowed from Star Wars: Empire at War - Forces of Corruption until I can find the time to take a swing at voice acting and making decent background noises for them. Also, thinking of breaking off into a thread for this mod since the title sucks and if I change it, people are probably going to go "Where the heck did that thread go?"

Oh, and one fun (or at least I'd like to think so) little idea. Thinking of giving the Syndicate a weak unit that you don't control AT ALL and it basically uses the critter wandering order and nothing else to find its own targets when I start working on them. Some kind of scout/harassment unit.

EDIT: I do have a Battle.net server of my own that works, just needs a bit of work. I can get it running again, but it will require all individuals who wish to use it to have Hamachi installed.

EDIT2: And if you haven't figured it out yet, it's for 1.15.1

[New-/Hydrolisk]

Hey, I tried this out. It looks... bad, to be frank (why does everything seem so FLAT?) but the iscripting is pretty good. The add-ons are pretty funky as of now, hard to click on.
But on a whole, this mod looks like it has quite a bit of potential.
Notify me or something when it's finished, ja?