Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Created by RazorclawX, Wanderers of Sorceria tells an epic length story through multiple chapters and books for WarCraft III.

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Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:56 pm

First off, you truly created an amazing campaign.

But here are a few minuses:

Hero spells, especially during Book 1 & 2:
Some spells are very underpowered, for instance lightning shield or cyclone. Maybe change lightning shield damage that way it only damages enemy units? Make cyclone (and/or Earthbind) more like the Entagle spell of the Keeper Of The Grove - The unit takes damage plus can be attacked, but can't attack itself.
Not sure if evasion is fitting for this hero
Also Shizuka's setup is a bit weird...I mean mirror image for a distance fighter?
Kanna - Purge as a Hero skill? Eh, very imba. Nah, this one is really just a joke. Especially considering that the Soul Reapers have the ability as well
Six - Ensnare? Exactly as useless as purge. Can't recall his other spells right now, unfortunally.

Pillage of Johan: VERY useless in the book one, since you usually juist wander around with your heroes only plus you just have more than enough gold to buy almost everything you want in the quantity you want. But this skill maybe very useful in book 2.

I also get the impression that some hero jobs are WAY more powered than others, so it was a kinda obvious decision to choose which job - If you already played the campaign before.
Also a minus - You have to select the job class BEFORE you see what the job features. How about a third button - Info. This one gives information about which of the two/three choosable jobs do what and has which abilities.

Some levels are really to hard, some of them are - those which I can recall right now
That level where you have to set up three ramps with Kanna in Book One. Not impossible, but EXTREMLY hard. I also got the impression that it is a WAY harder to set the first ramp in the middle. I just lost my whole army there nearly everyimte. Plus 4 extremly powerful heroes, eh?
Also, especially if you failed to kill the sorcerians or bases before the assault you will have a tough rush of units coming to you at once if the timer runs out.
It is very impossible to kill the runner if you don't know about it before, which means, you must have failed at least once in the mission. I HIGHLY suggest to edit his move speed dramatically. even if you hurry up when you get the message, he is just too far away.
And now the level from the other thread. Very hard to do "Family Reunion" without cheating. See the other thread for details. it is just too impossible....
the chapter...two levels before, iirc was also almost impossible. It took me about ten or more tries, and I still don't know how I could have done it. The Zande Witches' base is just too hard even without the boss. Three high-level enemy heroes, and TOO MANY units to counter against, especially taking the low ressouces in mind.

Also, at least for me the most of the spider race is a fail to play with. No gold income, that sucks, but if the difficulty of the levels are adjusted correctly, this won't be suhc bad I suppose.
But even the Spider Lords are a way too weak meelee unit. And I mean...pillage is a joke. It juts gives you kinda few gold, and more herassing, the units you build to get enemy ressources just die too quickly to "pillage" your ressources used for them back with them.

The last level where you ahve to defeat Kosseimaru. He is WAY too overpowered. If I won't have selected the jobs this time like I think it is optimal for him, I guess I would have been out-regenerated. Some suggestions too keep him a hard boss, but possible to kill him without cheating:
- No spell immunity, just the basic things heroes have
- WAY less HP regeneration
- No ability to totally heal himself to full HP. I just stopped there since I just fought that bastard for about a half an hour and this one was getting tedious. If he is using this spell regulary and more than once I don't know if he is beatable at all.
- Reduced god's shield duration.

This could help a lot.


But in general very nice work, but the frustration, mainly due the too hard difficulty, ruines the fun quite quickly. Nice music, nice sounds, nice pictures and icons, and of course one of the best storylines and character development I have ever seen.


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Kenas » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:26 pm

Kosseimaru is not overpowered and with certain skills you can catch him quite easily (although it does take some time). When you have done the secret mission you will have Pinkeye (cannot remember her name) and she has healing wave. Also Hikaru and Nekruow have holy lights, with addition Hikaru has death finger which can easily wipe out summoned beasts that drops healing runes.

Most importantly at the bottom of the map there is a fountain of restoration, and you can beat Kosseimaru without abusing that fountain. And there is also a Altar to revive your fallen heros. How can that be imbalanced?

Also for skills, Yes I think some are not used very much, but you underestimate the power of Earthbind. When the enemy is on Earthbind they cannot move; basically Earthbind is an Ensanre which can 'mesmerize' meele attackers for quite a time. Also gust is a very powerful AOE that deals very high damage (though channeling), very effective against hordes of enemies.

With runners, I tried to block the usual path with Necropolis and Ziggurats.


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Kenas » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:35 pm

And the second chapter of Book 2 is actually quite easy even on hard mode. Kosseimaru has virtually an infinite mana because he can raise dead and ritual them to restore mana. Shizuka has powerful AOE spells and with Frost Nova not many enemies will be left after the combo. Most important hero is Scaldar with vampiric aura lv.3 (that's 45%!) With just three heros and careful control you can wipe out both Satyr and Native tribe base.

Use Scaldar well. He has very fast attack speed which means that he heals himself every time he attacks. When you have razed other two bases you will gain 4000 gold. With that build a decent army, but be sure to include necro spiders. They are the key unit in destroying Zande units (not buildings!). Of course the units will all die along with Zandes, but with three heroes alone you can defeat the champion. Let Scaldar do the tanking, with Shizu and Koseeimaru as damage dealers. With level 3 Vampiric Aura Scaldar is invincible in 1:1 Combat. And use Kosseimaur's raise dead ability as well to stall enemies.

You do not have to control your unit much in the mission, and the three heros are so powerful you can knock out two bases with just them.


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:05 am

Also for skills, Yes I think some are not used very much, but you underestimate the power of Earthbind. When the enemy is on Earthbind they cannot move; basically Earthbind is an Ensanre which can 'mesmerize' meele attackers for quite a time. Also gust is a very powerful AOE that deals very high damage (though channeling), very effective against hordes of enemies.

What is "gust"?

Well...you actually just have agreed to me that there are a way better spells out there than earthbind, I mean, compare the skill again against entangle. Entangle is simple a way better.

And I actually wasn't able to finish the bases in the chapter I mentioned (expedition) with my heroes alone


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Kenas » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:22 pm

With certain control it is easy to wipe out Satyr and Native tribe base (Zande base are a bit hard).

Hold your heroes at just outside of the base. Hit enemies with Shizuka's ttack or raised deads. Once enemies are out kill them one by one. The Spearmaster has reincarnation, but that doesn't matter that much. Nova+Cone of frost (or Chain Lightning) are effective AOE that can destroy lots of enemies in short seconds. Constantly use raise dead skill of Kosseimaru to make stall units and to regain mp of him.

The combo I found most efficient was Cone of frost->Nova->Raise Dead->Death Ritual (Kosseimaru's skill, forgot its exact name). As enemies leave corpse behind use them to raise more abominations or revenants (depends on Kosseimaru's level).


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:23 am

Well the main problems was actually the Zande base, iirc.


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:24 pm

in the same level where you have the summoner duel with Mizuki is a bug: The mission doesn't fail even if your heroes die (I didn't try for all, but two died..)
You can also lure copy hokaru to the gate where all of your "watching heroes" will itnerfere into the fight


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:05 pm

Razorclaw, your thougths about this points?


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:21 pm

Bug: Book three, Chapter "Countdown". Command menu won't work if you load a savegame it seems.


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:45 pm

The Siege Of Kannai (?) seems to be also a bit too hard, in the second part of the chapter you just have to fight too many enemy units at once while you have no time to prepare your nerubian army for it.

On a side note, I get sometimes a browser crash if I open this forums category (seems to happen only with the category but not with single threads):
http://www.campaigncreations.org/forum/http://www.campaigncreations.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=6.0

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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Xenon » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:40 pm

Just FYI, multiple posts in a row are generally frowned upon. Please use the modify button instead.


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:16 am

Eh, I have learned it that way that double postings within a few minutes are prohibited, but it is ok if some hours are between the postings.

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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby RazorclawX » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:55 am

I think the fact that a lot of things that are crashing for you, including this forum, are a sign that there's a problem with your computer.
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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby IskatuMesk » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:59 am

Demoneater wrote:Eh, I have learned it that way that double postings within a few minutes are prohibited, but it is ok if some hours are between the postings.


not in your case no, five separate posts in a row is kind of silly

On a side note, I get sometimes a browser crash if I open this forums category (seems to happen only with the category but not with single threads):


good indicator something else is up broski
Image~[Gameproc]~Image
Warning: dialogue contains politically incorrect content. Viewer rearsore may occur.


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Re: Imbalances, improvements, suggestions, critics...

Postby Demoneater » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:13 am

Eh, well. It is just this site as it seems with which I had some problems with my browser.

Plus I don't think I have any viruses - I am using ubuntu  ;D

Razorclaw, I did want more your opinion about the gameplay changes rather than the crashes ^^

Plus I had some crashes with the campaign also at my other operating system as well as some other people seems to have crashing issues with the campaign (according to this forums area's threads)

Also if it seems to be my memory I guess, and I say IF my hardware is the rpoblem.

Eh, I mean...are you still interested in bug, gameplay and balance reports/suggestions or shall I stop them?


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