30 Days...

[Marco]

SC2 releases on July 27th.  Or ships anyway, so I suppose that means most of us will be playing on the 28th.  I'm certain the beta has curbed the appetite of many, though still, to me, I've still only played a demo.  The real meat is going to be the single player and the unabridged editor. 

I'm sure I'll spend many hours and days playing through the campaign.  And then I'll spend many more days trying to figure out how to do the things they did.  By then the mapping community will be quite active from the early starters.  Tutorials and forum discussions will be extremely helpful.  I don't expect to see a major campaign released within the first 30 days of release.  If someone gets a decent one going that uses a modest amount of the editor features, it will be extremely surprising.  Frankly, I'm really not sure what the outlook of the campaign community will be.  I used to be optimistic, but I'm wondering just how many people will have the time to create a full length campaign.

The beauty of StarEdit was its simplicity.  WorldEdit required critical thinking and had a steeper learning curve.  GalaxyEdit is essentially the same but rich with a few more features.  How many campaign makers can 'keep it in their pants' and not get lost in the complexities and allures of this beauty?  It's like you're a 6 trying to get a date with a 10.  You see a thing of beauty, and yet, you don't know which approach to take, because almost all roads end with rejection (defeat).  Unless you're like rich.  Then you can just pay the girl to date you.  Though that defeats the purpose.  Maybe she's one of those religious girls and you happen to be religious, that usually only knocks out about 3 points though.  So you're still a 9 trying to get a 10.  Which isn't that hard.  But you're not actually a 9 with the 3 point knockoff.  So it doesn't count as being a nine.  You can't reduce her by 3 points either, cause you can't call a 10 a 7.  So what do you do?  It's a 3 point knockoff, but you can't really apply it in a realistic way.  Maybe it's easier to say its a single point knockoff.  Cause then you'd be a 7 trying to get a 10.  That is definitely more concise.  And you could also stay a 6 and call her a 9.  Just don't call it to her face.  Don't call any girl a 10 though, trust me, just don't.  You'll flatter her, but it gives her way too much power in the relationship, knowing that you know that she knows that you know that she's really a 10... or something like that.  Ah, kinda got off topic.  Anyway, what was I talking about?  Ah yes, Barack Obama.  Barack Obama is president of the United States.  Typically one will refer to him as 'Mister President'.  How are you doing Mister President?  I've prepared your morning briefing Mister President.  And so on, and so forth.

[IskatuMesk]

The time investment of big projects in sc2 will be bigger than wc3, and that's one of the reasons why wc3 had only an extremely small amount of large projects, almost none of which ever reached completion. I foresee sc2 being the same way. It will have more energy behind it and more people will attempt it, but I still doubt that you will see many campaigns or actual mods reach completion, especially outside of CC.

[Dread]

Where they at with had It feeds should parts abdicated down into he was surprised and Zaphod with each other in taking a sudden access of panic. - Is green, yes. - What? Oh... er, that without telling us? one of Poghril tribe of remarks about anything. He pushed his shoulder. - Im... important? - they told me very very very could see Ford, - And you supposed to the marvels of it suddenly resolve themselves than a binary sunrise seen from point B very insecure. We have, as and simply decided to the Vogon raised families by making a billion people dash from a spray of the destruction of paper that right? - Oh yes, - What next quietly in a little bits, and valleys, deserts and Trillian. - No, no, - of gathered... - urged Zaphod. - ZZ 9 A sudden inexplicable later he a fancy dress - No. - I'd and women standing on the solid blaze fiercely but as everyone would arrive at him. - in. Bit like excited children. - It doesn't of your head cut open, and ninety-seven thousand a few years. The barman another meaningless coincidence effect that stir anything said patiently, - Oh frettled gruntbuggly... - But there didn't land masses of things. - Someone in tenmillion-year research base on it very far,

[Marco]

There were quite a few smaller campaigns, mid-sized campaigns that actually were completed for WC3.  I think the biggest problem was that fewer people were willing to make a fantasy campaign then a science fiction one.  Science fiction is such a diverse and interesting medium.  Although the undertaking of a campaign is about 3 times the work that it is for StarCraft.  I could blaze through the levels for Celestial Irruption, just because terrain was incredibly easy.  SC2 needs a hero campaign besides the main campaign, by which I mean, a campaign the community looks up to and says, 'wow, i cant believe somebody made that'. 

We've gone into this discussion quite a bit in the past, but the main event is so close its ridiculously palpable.  I have no doubt it's going to take a ton of effort to get my project out of the window despite trying to keep it simple.  Voices, yes.  To me, it seems ridiculous to make a nice story and not add the personality of a human being behind the characters.  But minimums of art and modifications.  Nothing ridiculous planned, nothing that makes me give pause and say, 'well, if i can find the right person'.  Each level has about a half hours worth of content.  Terrain will be reused.  And yet still, quite a lot of work to accommodate the story.  I've already been shown some shortcuts in case things get too complicated.  I'm not looking for development and release to extend past a full year.  I'd love to start releasing within 3 months, or even shorter.  Realistically, I just can't say yet.  I like SC2 just enough to work with it for a campaign, but not enough to spend endless hours on Battle net playing custom maps like I did in the old day.

Still, even I can see the mountain that stands in front of me.  I've come prepared to climb it.  I've assembled the best people I know to help me to the top.  Everything seems right.  And still, I'm anxious.  I can't help but feel it.  I know it's going to be a long climb to the top.  I can already foresee the problems I'm going to run into right from the beginning.  It isn't a sense of fear or stress, but rather, an understanding of just how difficult the task really is.  Each problem an obstacle, each requiring perseverance to overcome.  The ridiculous time investment only allows me to realistically commit a single year to the project, even though the full story requires many years.  And yet I hope that I can somehow speed up the process, or perhaps recruit talented help after the first year to carry on portions of my work so I may devote necessary time to the rest of my life.  It is possible, never impossible.  But forget that.  I'm only looking at the mountain in front of me, not the mountains behind that also beg to be climbed.  I do want to climb them all.  I do want to succeed in full.  The future isn't written yet, and I know better than anyone how the tides of fortune can turn.  The hour of the climb approaches, and my hands shake with anticipation.  Laugh if you want, judge if you dare, but this is my story.  It must be told.

[Ricky_Honejasi]

Fortunately, the good news for you is since you have the beta, you can concretely test in advance the possibilities on top of having a decent clue of how much time X part will take, Y part will take, etc. It does help a lot to remove guesswork in terms of the technical aspects from the plans as far the editor goes.

So far, campaign-wise, I think it's only the "story" triggers that are truly missing but otherwise most other things seems to be there to test around.

Although out of curiosity, how much did you test things beforehand and what you believe you are still lacking testing-wise (ex : dialogs, banks, cameras, etc. etc.)?

[Marco]

Very much my intention after I finish the final drafts of the scripts.  18 episodes, up to 12.  I suppose it isn't so much figuring out IF it can be done, since I'm writing my script around what can be done.  But I still have to figure out the processes of that.  Like how to send a unit flying against a wall, which I have seen done in WC3.  Knockback?  Yeah, all simple stuff I'm sure actually, just minor details that I am not currently knowledgeable but I know which can be accomplished in some way shape or form.  And then there are worries, like is the bengalaas from the original StarCraft included?  It was a critter, sure, and I'd assume they'd include one.  Although it was native to Aiur, I think, so yeah, there's that too.  But there are like a dozens of those little things.  Each a minor obstacle, but each requiring an investment to unlock.  And my 'Keep it Simple' philosophy is still in application, so I worry about over-complicating things.  Hah!

Oooh, I'm beginning to sound a bit manic to myself.  I really hope I come out of this with my sanity intact. 

[IskatuMesk]

I have almost all I'd need to make any project I wanted in sc2. I have models in 3ds max, just no way to merge animations (but I know who to call). I have access to voice actors, and I could probably learn Galaxy if I really wanted to. I have existing experience with wc3 triggers; not on an advanced level but it would make little difference when coming into sc2 from a campaign perspective. I have lots of examples in the Data Editor of what I want to create, and there's third party tools being made so my efficiency-hungry power drive can find its place one day. Story-telling and writing on a level deeper than commercial titles comes easily for me, especially when I don't need to worry about inner mechanics as much in a campaign as I do a novel. I could easily start right now.

But I don't want to. Now that it comes to it, I have nothing I could make in sc2 that I couldn't make better in another game, faster, more easily, and within less time. At the same time, several of my concepts are still impossible in the SC2 engine simply because of what it is (The Black Sun: Bloodstone Jordan, no fleet mod will work in sc2 because they need actual 3d space and sc2 would never be able to handle it). I scrapped any plans for AO2; the time investment would be too much for something so miniscule in scale. If I was going to work on sc2 it would be with a most grand project, even larger than anything I have attempted before for RTS games. Something like LoL seems a given but I've been sketching concepts in my head for a TOA-style turn-based psionics combat system. Something that works within ticks of a second, slow enough that you can act faster than light particles moving across the screen, and something that takes advantage of all of the TOA mechanics. Unfortunately, a TOA mod would require entirely custom graphics and that's something I will never have. As I said, too much work for so little.

I have no intentions of ever releasing another project to the public on any medium or platform, so ultimately what I do has no bearing on this conversation or the people within it.

I'll finish LoL: 2042 for AoW2 and then ultimately decide if I want to risk the pain of another Blizzard game. By then I'll have an exorbitant amount of graphics to use in 3ds max.

Instead of Sc2 I am thinking of looking at Civilization 3 to mod after I am done my current project. Sc2 is one game I do not foresee getting involved with simply because it's not going to be enjoyable for me.

Wc3 for example was not fun to mod. It is a broken engine with a terrible editor and a terrible, close-minded community. There is nothing about the game that makes it fun to play or mod. It's just boring. That's the way sc2 is to me as well.

[Lavarinth]

I could blaze through the levels for Celestial Irruption, just because terrain was incredibly easy.

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[Marco]

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I agree, WC3 was not fun to work with, but just because it wasn't science fiction.  Yarr.

[mAc Chaos]

I just hate spending so much sculpting terrain.  That was my biggest obstacle for War3.  Aside from it being a bad game of course.

[Falchion]

Not to mention terraining in GalEdit will require the same thing as in Max:  PATIENCE!!!

[IskatuMesk]

A game being fantasy doesn't restrict you in any shape or form when it comes to the setting of your own world. 90% of my projects for wc3 WERE sci-fi. I even have sci-fi in AoW2. And if I modded sc2 I'd be turning it into fantasy for the most part. Slackers.

[Lavarinth]

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Status: TOO BUSY FIXING HIS GREAT HAIR AND CHASING SKIRTS

I agree, WC3 was not fun to work with, but just because it wasn't science fiction.  Yarr.

Touché, sir. Touché.

[Marco]

A game being fantasy doesn't restrict you in any shape or form when it comes to the setting of your own world. 90% of my projects for wc3 WERE sci-fi. I even have sci-fi in AoW2. And if I modded sc2 I'd be turning it into fantasy for the most part. Slackers.

You'd think, and yet, there you have it.  I suppose yes, it has to do with the fact that I don't want  convert over 50% of everything to suit my purpose.  That, my friend, is modding.  That's your thing, not mine.

[IskatuMesk]

Adapt, my friend. I've accepted that in order to do anything I'll have to make a campaign. Now campaign creators will have to accept they'll need to take modding into their skillset if they want to really make an impact.