We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

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AA7Dragoon
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We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by AA7Dragoon »

The views expressed in this thread are not necessarily those of Campaign Creations or its staff (even if staff has posted).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091001/ap_on_re_us/us_empire_state_building_china;_ylt=AgFbwWABpXwE9bH3angahhxvzwcF;_ylu=X3oDMTJyanFlM21yBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMDAxL3VzX2VtcGlyZV9zdGF0ZV9idWlsZGluZ19jaGluYQRwb3MDNARzZWMDeW5fbW9zdF9wb3B1bGFyBHNsawNlbXBpcmVzdGF0ZWI-
Empire State Building lit for China, drawing ire

NEW YORK – Red and yellow lights shone from the top of the Empire State Building at dusk Wednesday, a tribute to communist China's 60th anniversary that protesters labeled "blatant approval" of totalitarianism and criticized as inappropriate for an icon in the land of the free.
The building is routinely lit with different colors to mark holidays and big events, but opponents questioned whether it's right to commemorate a sensitive political issue, particularly when China has such a poor human rights record.
About 20 supporters of Tibet, which China has ruled since shortly after communists took over in 1949, protested outside the building during a ceremonial lighting of a scale model inside the lobby. They chanted "No to China's empire; free Tibet now," and held signs reading, "Empire State Building celebrating 60 years of China's oppression."
Lhadon Tethong, executive director of Students for a Free Tibet, called the lighting "outright, blatant approval for a communist totalitarian system."
"It's a great public relations coup for the Chinese state," Tethong said as tourists gawked at the protesters. "But on the other hand, it's sure to backfire because the American public and the global public will speak against it."
At the lobby ceremony, building manager Joseph Bellina called the lights a high honor and said he was proud of the relationship between "our countries and our people."
Chinese Consul General Peng Keyu, who pulled the switch on the glass-encased model, said he was "honored and delighted."
He said China's reforms of the past 30 years have led to greater openness and "tremendous change."
Keyu and Bellina didn't address critics and declined to answer questions.
Journalist and blogger Marc Masferrer questioned legitimizing a government that continues to repress its citizens' freedoms, including their access to media and the Internet.
"I don't think one of our great landmarks should be turned into a platform to honor a regime and a system responsible for as much tragedy and all the other things that come with a repressive system," he told The Associated Press.
Masferrer pointed out that this year is also the 20th anniversary of the violently crushed student-led movement in Beijing's Tiananmen Square. The People's Liberation Army is believed to have killed hundreds, possibly thousands, of protesters.
Politicians united in their disdain.
Rep. Anthony Weiner, a New York Democrat, said the lights should not be used to pay tribute to what he called "an oppressive regime" with a "shameful history on human rights."
Rep. Peter King, a New York Republican, said it was "a sad day for New York."
"I am strongly opposed to it or any commemoration of the Communist Chinese revolution. It's one thing to acknowledge the government; it's totally immoral to honor it."
The lights atop the building, which is owned by W&H Properties, are often are changed. For example, Italian colors — red, white and green — commemorate Columbus Day, while green, white and orange are displayed for the India Day parade.
For the Chinese anniversary, the lights were to remain on through early Thursday.
I, for one, am an angry American.
Last edited by Lavarinth on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by coko »

Yeah I, for one, am an non-angry European.
"I don't think one of our great landmarks should be turned into a platform to honor a regime and a system responsible for as much tragedy and all the other things that come with a repressive system," he told The Associated Press.
Tragedy? Because they are Communist? Or the argument about human rights. Which is fair enough, but why no comments about India? Or Japan? Those both have serious problems with human rights abuse but don't cause such outrage.
Rep. Anthony Weiner, a New York Democrat, said the lights should not be used to pay tribute to what he called "an oppressive regime" with a "shameful history on human rights."
I think England and America's human rights history is shameful, more so in the recent years, but still from the witch hunts of the MacArthur era, and the black rights through to current day issues in England such as not awarding citizenship to Ghurka's that fought in the wars with the English.

I hate the American hatred of Communism, because frankly there are good things to say about it and terrible things, and I think it is so hypocritical to say they are bad and you are good.

So for my two pence, let them keep it lit, because China is important, here to stay, and has just as much rights as the Americans do to act the way they do (think on that what you will, ( and i don't mention british because we follow you guys))
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by Xenon »

Whoa, AA7 said something I can agree with.  :o
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by DrumsofWar »

coko wrote: Yeah I, for one, am an non-angry European.

Tragedy? Because they are Communist? Or the argument about human rights. Which is fair enough, but why no comments about India? Or Japan? Those both have serious problems with human rights abuse but don't cause such outrage.

I think England and America's human rights history is shameful, more so in the recent years, but still from the witch hunts of the MacArthur era, and the black rights through to current day issues in England such as not awarding citizenship to Ghurka's that fought in the wars with the English.

I hate the American hatred of Communism, because frankly there are good things to say about it and terrible things, and I think it is so hypocritical to say they are bad and you are good.

So for my two pence, let them keep it lit, because China is important, here to stay, and has just as much rights as the Americans do to act the way they do (think on that what you will, ( and i don't mention british because we follow you guys))
Do you understand that the Communists in China killed up to 2 to 8 million of their own people in the Cultural Revolution with bloody purges of anyone deemed to be an enemy of the state (including other Communists) and caused the deaths of another 3 to 8 million by starvation during the Great Leap Foward by forcing all farmers to collectively send their wheat to the government which would redistribute it to them?  (Some farmers who tried to hide food in order to survive were arrested and killed with many peasants resorting to killing their own family members to survive.)

This isn't even factoring in the 12 MILLION FUCKING PEOPLE that Stalin killed in his own batshit Purge in Soviet Russia or the tens of thousands of Fulan Gong, Buddhist, and Christian Chinese that the Communist Chinese have killed in the past decade or the millions imprisoned in Chinese prisons who are routinely executed for their organs or the two million people of their own people that the North Vietnamese killed during the Vietnam Conflict or the two million that the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia killed which amounted to one quarter of their population.

There's a reason that the Chinese government in Beijing is considered an "oppressive regime" that violates human rights and that Communist was considered one of the worst things to happen in the 20th Century and that's typically when one is able to kill more people than Hitler, the US, the UK, AIDS, and Columbus combined.  So honestly shut the fuck up and do the research before you disapprove of "hatred" of China.
Last edited by DrumsofWar on Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by chris »

coko is trolling.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by coko »

Yes I studied it. I conclude that those regimes are bad. But what does it take for a nation that is pretty bad, but trying to clean up its image to get respect? I mean seriously, yes really bad history, but frankly, none of the current leaders of China were major players in any of that (though I am sure many took some part). So why should the actions you talk about, which happened some time back have such point right now.

I mean, should I jump back further and discuss England/Spain/France's involvement in the slave trade and describe them of oppressive?

Or better yet, would you say that if they changed now to a democracy like say America, they would get respect as no longer being an oppressive regime? I presume yes, but what happens if they keep their current model? I mean you can hate those horrid actions, but why keep the blame on them. I mean is there some time limit I don't know about? 50 years? 100 years? Should we hate Germans too? Or current day Russia? Or how about some genocides in Africa?

I am not trolling, I just can't understand this underlying hatred of Communism. You won, they lost, they changed to incorporate your ideals, so give them a chance. Would you want to improve if everyone get telling you how much you sucked and how much they hate you?
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

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coko wrote: I mean is there some time limit I don't know about? 50 years? 100 years? Should we hate Germans too? Or current day Russia? Or how about some genocides in Africa?
Germany, though having not much to do with the regime you're talking about, is still widely 'discredited' for WWII and the world still hasn't completely forgiven current day Russia. Africa is still a third world country, so I'd say it still hasn't gained this world's complete respect. Look at the number of videogames with evil Russians. Or TV shows. Or African arms dealers and evil regimes that you have to take out.

I'm not taking sides and I'm not saying that countries cannot be forgiven for their past. Though humanity may be suffering from a severe case of hypocrisy, I'm somehow, someway happy our world which has seen so much evil still holds grudges against proclaimed evildoers.

This may not be about Communism. This may well be about all -isms. They are bad.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by Mucky »

DoW, this has to be the first time I've seen you angry.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

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coko wrote: I am not trolling, I just can't understand this underlying hatred of Communism. You won, they lost, they changed to incorporate your ideals, so give them a chance. Would you want to improve if everyone get telling you how much you sucked and how much they hate you?
People don't get tired of how much they hate America no matter who is in charge of it.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by Falchion »

RazorclawX wrote:
coko wrote: I am not trolling, I just can't understand this underlying hatred of Communism. You won, they lost, they changed to incorporate your ideals, so give them a chance. Would you want to improve if everyone get telling you how much you sucked and how much they hate you?
People don't get tired of how much they hate America no matter who is in charge of it.
Agreed with Razorclaw.  Most of you may not know this, but we know that here in Brazil, the Military Dictatorship of 1964 was started because of a remote possibility that Communism would infect us through Goulart's government.  A REMOTE possibility.  Communism was already hated here since the Vargas era, so much that Vargas himself had the country ridden of anyone related to the Communist parties.

Still, answering to coko, this underlying hatred of Communism goes on because of rich people's paranoia from losing their private wealth.  So they basically teach this to the people to make them afraid of change:  You have this small portion of food, the rest goes to the people.  Clothing, you only need one, the people get their shares.  This thing, is not yours, it belongs to all.

Therefore, coko, Communism , according to Capitalism, is the ideal of losing nearly everything and not gaining anything else in favor of the others.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

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Mucky wrote: DoW, this has to be the first time I've seen you angry.
I usually let it go when people get stuff wrong since it happens to everyone (including me) but this is a pretty big one considering the mountain of bodies involved.

Coko, what you don't get is that a) they never lost and b) they're STILL doing it.  The people in charge in Beijing are the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who caused the massive body count 40 years ago and they're still doing stuff like killing members of religious groups, jailing the most amount of people in the world (% and raw number), killing members of minorities, farming executed prisoners for organs, mass-evicting villagesby force that have existed for millenia to build a factory, and literally censoring the word democracy on search engines.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

Post by Hercanic »

Would you honor Germany if Hitler were still in charge today, the concentration camps still pumping their black smoke? That is where your argument fails to compare, Coko, when bringing up Germany, Russia, or American slavery. China's government is still doing all that we would condemn. But we get shit cheap from them so let's throw a party!

As for Communism, communist governments have never been communist (true communism lacks any government).

Nonetheless, the ideal of communism is fundamentally flawed in a reality of limited resources.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

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Hercanic wrote: Would you honor Germany if Hitler were still in charge today, the concentration camps still pumping their black smoke? That is where your argument fails to compare, Coko, when bringing up Germany, Russia, or American slavery. China's government is still doing all that we would condemn. But we get shit cheap from them so let's throw a party!

As for Communism, communist governments have never been communist (true communism lacks any government).

Nonetheless, the ideal of communism is fundamentally flawed in a reality of limited resources.
They're communist governments.  You have to take into account their implementations in reality.  This is like saying none of the governments during the Middle Ages were Christian because "true Christianity" does this or that.  Although I can see MORE of an argument for that.

Communism explicitly calls for violent revolution and slaughtering entire classes of people.  It shouldn't be a surprise when people actually do that.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

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Capitalism and communism are 'wrong' for essentially the same reasons. (people get screwed by the system) People who prosper under capitalism obviously wouldn't want communism. People who would benefit more from communism obviously would want to end capitalism. The concept of success through hard work goes basically hand in hand with the American Dream, so capitalism fits the American mentality perfectly.



Fuck communism.
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Re: We Welcome Our New Chinese Overlords

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tipereth wrote: Capitalism and communism are 'wrong' for essentially the same reasons. (people get screwed by the system) People who prosper under capitalism obviously wouldn't want communism. People who would benefit more from communism obviously would want to end capitalism. The concept of success through hard work goes basically hand in hand with the American Dream, so capitalism fits the American mentality perfectly.



Fuck communism.
That. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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